Changing The Industry Podcast

Brett Kinsfather [00:00:00]:

It.

David Roman [00:00:01]:

Do you know why I don't do that? Because I have plausible deniability and I have I complete ignorance. That's in the tax code.

Lucas Underwood [00:00:12]:

It is?

David Roman [00:00:14]:

I don't know that's the only part of the tax code I know is that I don't know credit for knowing.

Brett Kinsfather [00:00:19]:

That and reading the tax code.

David Roman [00:00:21]:

No, just that part. I don't read anything else in the tax, so I don't have a clue what else is in there? I don't have a clue. All I know is that if I don't know what the hell I'm doing, I can always say I don't know what the hell I'm doing because I don't know what the hell I'm doing because I don't read anything in the tax code. Nothing.

Lucas Underwood [00:00:40]:

Hey, David, the last time I found myself in court, I told the judge that I did not know that was a law.

Brett Kinsfather [00:00:49]:

And do you?

David Roman [00:00:50]:

No, you can't do that with criminal cases. You can't do that with criminal case. You can't criminal case, drug charge, I don't know. I'm just assuming you either hit somebody or you got caught with something.

Brett Kinsfather [00:01:06]:

I'm really curious if that's in the fine print of all the estimates you send to your customer.

David Roman [00:01:13]:

Me?

Brett Kinsfather [00:01:14]:

Yes.

David Roman [00:01:18]:

Well, I send estimates. It's in the terms of service, but I don't know the tax code. Just letting you know. No, that's not in there. You can't do that with the state. You can't go to the state and go, hey, I didn't know I had sales tax that I owed and that I was supposed to be charging customers. You can't do that. And if you overpay, they don't pay you back.

David Roman [00:01:37]:

I found that out. So if you miscalculate too, wasn't it?

Lucas Underwood [00:01:42]:

That one was like a rough it.

David Roman [00:01:43]:

Was early on pay. No, yeah, it was rough when you don't have any money, but you're like, hey, I've been overpaying for the last nine months. Can I get some of that money back? And they're like, what? No, you're stuck. You are on your own thing.

Brett Kinsfather [00:01:58]:

How that works one way.

David Roman [00:02:00]:

It only works one way. Only ever works one day. And I like when people go, hey, if we don't have taxes, we don't have services. What services are you talking about exactly? My roads? What else are my state taxes going in there? You know what doesn't need to go? Those massive pile of federal taxes go off into the ether and never come back ever. For anything, ever.

Lucas Underwood [00:02:22]:

Now we've done it. Now we've done it.

David Roman [00:02:25]:

You chose to do this on tax day. You chose to do this on tax day. I don't know why. I should have seen the date and going, you know what? I wasn't even paying attention scenes and.

Brett Kinsfather [00:02:37]:

We'Ll be fully canceled. David.

David Roman [00:02:40]:

No, hey, no, it's whatever The Who says that's what we fly by here. That's the only otherwise they shut our YouTube channel down and we don't make our $96 a month.

Brett Kinsfather [00:02:51]:

Talked about you've mentioned these words. Yeah.

David Roman [00:02:55]:

Hey, all I'm saying is I don't know the tax code, but I still attempt to do my own taxes because in the free states of America, I believe that you should be able to do your own taxes. It shouldn't be so complicated. I can't do my own taxes. It shouldn't be the fact that you can't argue that that's ridiculous. Right. It shouldn't be so sophisticated that, hey, there's 85 tiers and you can't deduct this, but you can deduct that. And this is kind of a maybe wishy washer whatever, like no. And the forms are so long, I mail mine.

David Roman [00:03:27]:

Does anybody else mail theirs? No. Yeah, I do. I mail mine. I handwrite and mail. You know why? Because I can.

Lucas Underwood [00:03:39]:

Bret, do you think there's some guilt by association that us just knowing him is dangerous?

David Roman [00:03:45]:

What? I don't e file anything. Yeah.

Brett Kinsfather [00:03:48]:

When this goes to be put out there, can you just blur my face?

David Roman [00:03:55]:

I don't do anything illegal. I do it by the book. By the book. By the rick. I believe you.

Lucas Underwood [00:04:01]:

How are you doing, buddy?

Brett Kinsfather [00:04:03]:

I'm doing great. How about yourself?

Lucas Underwood [00:04:06]:

I'm doing fantastic. I hear that you're going to have a really cool kind of deal going on at Apex. And you've got Roy here. Roy, introduce yourself, brother.

Roy Wragth [00:04:15]:

Hey, what's up, y'all? Thanks for having me on the show. So I'm Roy. I own a motorsports shop focusing on late model domestic cars and obviously we use Shopmonkey. I have a background in NASA and Google. So kind of incorporating modern tech into these tools is where I shine and kind of Shopmonkey aligns with some of the tools and tricks I do to help business flow. I also develop websites. So kind of commingling everything and making it all work and all cool things. Yeah, I find interest in that.

Lucas Underwood [00:04:48]:

That's really cool. So you can't drop a background like that and not kind of go into a little more detail.

Brett Kinsfather [00:05:03]:

Can I deviate just slightly? And I promise to come back to Roy's background.

Lucas Underwood [00:05:08]:

Hang on. I'm worried that you've never listened to the show because if you listen to the show that, you know, we never stay on a topic for any period of time. Take floor, sir.

Brett Kinsfather [00:05:20]:

Well, I was going to say so SEMA does these educational sessions and I had applied to be in one because we were doing some research and discovering some cool information out there. And that being said, the reason why I reached out to you, I appreciate you guys doing this. Making some time for us is within the Facebook chat that you put together leading up to Apex and SEMA. I made mention, hey, we're going to be doing a speaker panel and here's what the topic is and it's really about. It's very technology driven. How are four different types of shops making use of technology when it comes to operating their business, doing the type of work that they're doing. So really, when we talk about technology, that can be a lot of different things as well as customer engagement and customer experience. So got some thumbs up on there for, you know, hence I reached out and said, hey, is there any way we can talk about this?

Lucas Underwood [00:06:30]:

Because yeah, for sure.

Brett Kinsfather [00:06:31]:

The fact Apex SEMA primarily is just so known for well, I want to walk around, I want to look at the cars, I want to look at this, I want to look at that, and all that is well and good. But there's actually just a tremendous amount of really good educational stuff going on each and every day from Monday through Thursday. So I highly recommend checking that out for anybody to check it out. If you go to the Semashow.com, you're going to see a ton of information there. So I just want to kind of set the table for this conversation as to why I had said, hey, is there any way we can talk about the educational stuff going on at SEMA? But now, going back to Roy's background.

David Roman [00:07:17]:

Bret, that's not how you derail a conversation. This is how you derail a conversation. As soon as he said, Hi, I'm Roy. As he said as soon as, Hi, I'm Roy, I was reminded of anybody watch Rick? And yes, yes, he knows what I'm talking about. Roy a life. Well, A, they go to this video game arcade thing out in space, and they put this thing on, and the game is you living this life of a guy named Roy. You're born and you're a little kid, you grow up at 1.1 of the characters, takes Roy off the grid, and everybody starts circling around and it's like, oh my, they're taking Roy off the grid. He doesn't have a Social Security.

David Roman [00:08:02]:

See, he knows. Yeah, that's a great episode, by the way.

Roy Wragth [00:08:05]:

Funny.

Brett Kinsfather [00:08:06]:

Is Roy Rag here today?

David Roman [00:08:09]:

Roy.

Brett Kinsfather [00:08:09]:

Are you actually Roy from Rick and Morty?

David Roman [00:08:12]:

Are we living he does not look like Roy from Rick and Morty in any way, shape, or form.

Roy Wragth [00:08:20]:

I mean, I guess.

David Roman [00:08:23]:

You don't sell carpet like the one episode.

Roy Wragth [00:08:27]:

No, absolutely not.

Lucas Underwood [00:08:28]:

Told his story yet because you interjected David, he might sell carpet.

David Roman [00:08:32]:

He went to the carpet store, and then he ended up dying. He was pulling something from he was on top of a ladder. He was pulling something out, and a whole bunch of carpet rolls fell on top of him and crushed him. That's how he died. Well, I'm glad Roy he beat cancer, though. He beat cancer in the episode. Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:08:53]:

So, Roy, tell us a little bit about yourself, man. You seem like you got a really crazy interesting background. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Roy Wragth [00:09:00]:

So what's going on? I'm Roy. I sell carpets. And I am on the Rick and Morty. No. So. Yeah, I'm Roy. I joined the military straight out of high school. I did.

Roy Wragth [00:09:16]:

Eleven years active duty, Navy as a helicopter technician. Always working with my hands, building stuff, toying with cars on my spare time. When I got out, I decided to pursue, hey, let's try this corporate thing. I got a contractor role at NASA working on heat shields, and I got to work with a lot of different teams. So engineers, aerospace engineers, and just kind of cross functional collaborations, learned CAD and stuff. So again, using my hands, learning, building things, understanding hey, the engineering side plus our side. And then finally I went into corporate. I was Waymo, which is Google self driving car.

Roy Wragth [00:09:53]:

I was a program manager there. I led the evening shift for the vehicle technicians and integrations. And basically what they did is integrated the self driving software onto our base vehicles and responsible for hey looking at the data when they're driving, what is the car doing? How is it predicting the behavior based on traffic? So a lot more that goes into that. But yeah, I managed that evening team, and in there is kind of where I learned. I've worked with Meta, I've worked with the Vet Net there. So we have different cross functional programs where I adopted all these skills and I was like, oh, this is cool, I can apply here, or hey, interested? I learned how to do that. I took this course on my spare time. I put it in application on one of my 20% projects, and then here I am.

David Roman [00:10:38]:

Hold on, what's a 20% project?

Brett Kinsfather [00:10:40]:

I was actually just going to ask that, David. That's what we're more about. Oh, also one other thing. Howie Mandel sold carpet early, just so.

David Roman [00:10:49]:

You guys are aware.

Roy Wragth [00:10:51]:

So 20% project is basically you work your primary role for 80%, and you have 20% to work on something different. So, like Monday through Thursday, you would work on your normal job, and then Friday you would take that day to go hang out with another team or go to another campus and just shadow and work on a project. And it just kind of makes you diverse because when you're coming up from promo, they look for that, right? Like, can you do your job? What are you doing outside of the box that's helping the company grow and scale or whatever the case may be. So, yeah, as long as you were able to do that. And mine was with the veterans group, the Veterans Network, because obviously I'm a veteran and yeah, that's pretty cool.

Lucas Underwood [00:11:33]:

That's pretty cool. So let me ask you this then. What possessed you to want to start a shop? I mean, it seems like you were finding success. Seems like things were going really well. Have you lost your mind?

David Roman [00:11:45]:

You wanted to derail that, too? Yeah, just like looking up for me.

Roy Wragth [00:11:50]:

Yeah. No, to be honest, up until a while, I just didn't really know how to answer this. But I wasn't being used to my full potential, if that makes sense. I felt like when I was in the military, I have three combat tours. I lost a lot of friends, so I hold a lot of guilt into even though regardless if it's my fault or not, I hold a lot of guilt. So my passion is to try to help others regardless of what that looks like. So I always have a drive to learn and be better and be better and be better. So I have more skills that I'm able to help other people.

Roy Wragth [00:12:22]:

So in this case, I was working hard and I just felt like, no, you're too, Junior, or we're going to pass you up this time, or whatever. And I was like, man, I have so much potential. I'm out here actually doing stuff or numbers or killing it. And basically I didn't like to be judged by someone who's not looking at your performance, but instead just playing this corporate game or whatever you want to call it. So I was building cards on the side, and when I realized, I was like, man, I'm making the same amount of money building cars that I am here, why not do this full time? And that's what led me to entrepreneurship.

Lucas Underwood [00:13:02]:

Very cool. And so, Bret, how did you find him for your upcoming presentation?

Brett Kinsfather [00:13:09]:

Yeah, great question. So Roy was probably the first person that came to mind because his career as it is today, kind of has two paths. He's a bit of a web developer, and he's got his shop. So knowing that about him, because we were actually looking for this goes back a year ago. We were looking for customers that we just wanted to make sure we engaged at SEMA who were like, okay, well, if they're there, we want to make sure we can connect with them, say hi, spend some time, get some feedback, things like that. So that's how I first became familiar with Roy, and then I just started kind of following what he had been doing for about the last year. You do that with all sorts of people who are doing things interesting and quite with. That's exactly what I'm doing with the other panelists that we so when the opportunity came to say, all right, cool, let's put something together where we essentially just gather four interesting individuals, roy was on the list.

Brett Kinsfather [00:14:22]:

And then, if you don't mind, I'd like to just also mention Ken Farley, who builds overland vehicles and actually has an automotive repair shop connected to that business. Jamie Helm, who has a general auto repair shop not too far from me in Illinois here. And then we also have Philip Lindsley, who has Titan motoring out of Tennessee. He's right outside of Nashville, and he does a lot of truck accessories and customization and stuff like that. So we've got a couple different segments that we wanted to make sure we were touching upon. And if you break it down thinking about the way that SEMA is laid out. You've got Central Hall, which is primarily performance. You've got West Hall, which is truck off road and Overlanding, stuff like that.

Brett Kinsfather [00:15:13]:

You have repair shops, guys from repair shops that are walking the halls and walking the aisles like they're there representing. So I want to make sure we are touching upon kind of all of that. And again, just knowing what these people are doing. When I was putting together their introduction slides, I started really questioning some of my own career decisions and looking at what they've done and accomplished. I was like, jeez, okay, well, this makes me kind of think twice about.

Lucas Underwood [00:15:41]:

Hey, don't feel bad about how I feel.

Brett Kinsfather [00:15:44]:

Personally.

Lucas Underwood [00:15:47]:

We've interviewed people, and then when we get done, David looks at me and is like, should I feel bad about myself?

David Roman [00:15:52]:

I kind of feel bad. Exactly. No, I never feel bad. That's not true. That was a bold faced lie. Right now I never feel bad. I see what these people have to do to do what they're doing. That guy had to go to war.

David Roman [00:16:08]:

I'm not going to war. I'm soft and squishy. I can't do that. No, he's like, hardcore and dedicated. Kudos to you, man. You can see what he had to do to get his work done. Well, not all.

Brett Kinsfather [00:16:28]:

Also does like, jiu jitsu, too, I think, if I'm correct on that. So, yes, he can kill you, David.

David Roman [00:16:39]:

Listen, going to take a lot to take me out, trust me. But he sounds like a good friend, somebody you want to have around.

Brett Kinsfather [00:17:00]:

Yeah, exactly. That's really why I asked him to be on the panel, because it's like.

David Roman [00:17:04]:

Hey, yeah, I need some Vegas is sketchy, man. You don't want to be up there, and you want to have some Fremont Street at night. So the weirdos roll out.

Lucas Underwood [00:17:19]:

I should have known this is where.

David Roman [00:17:21]:

We were going with the minute you saw the guy with the diaper roll out, you're like, well, this is interesting. Let's see this every day.

Lucas Underwood [00:17:32]:

So tell us we kind of know the premise of the panel. Tell us what it is that we're going to be talking about in the panel, because it's a really interesting discussion that I don't think a lot of folks recognize. You're a shop software guy, so you see this we talk to a lot of shop owners. So we see it. A shop owner gets in their own head that there's one way to do this, and this is the only way that this is going to work. And I can't use this software for any other way. And by the way, this software doesn't have the green button on the left hand top of the screen, so therefore I can't use this software. You need to put the green button in.

Lucas Underwood [00:18:08]:

Our software doesn't have a green button. Well, I want a green button on the top left of the screen, because otherwise it doesn't work. It's broken if you don't have that. And so to hear that we've got these folks who are looking at diverse different ways of operating is really intriguing to me. Where's this panel going?

Brett Kinsfather [00:18:30]:

Roy, do you mind if you lucas, were you asking me or were you either one or anybody?

Lucas Underwood [00:18:35]:

Anybody?

Brett Kinsfather [00:18:36]:

All right, well, I'm going to share my thoughts then, on that conversationally. We have it broken down into just four primary components customer experience, setting and then setting customer expectations, shop organization and efficiencies. And so when I think about those four things, customer experience and Roy, you can speak to this more, but that begins when someone starts trying to learn about you and determining whether or not they're going to take their vehicle to you. So what does your social media look like? What sort of work are you doing? How are you leveraging that or how are you making use of that? That can apply to your website, that can apply to your online reputation, all those sorts of things that can apply, quite frankly, to the way your building looks. What sort of technology are you using to make sure that your place makes somebody confident when they roll up? My point is, it can really be anything. And then when we talk about expectations, I want to hear what these guys and gals have to say about how they communicate and how they build transparency with their customers. And then on the shop organization side, I'm hoping we can dive in and learn about from these four different unique approaches of how do they manage their day to day and how do they teach other individuals within their business to make use of technologies. Where we were talking about it earlier with taxes, some people might disagree with me, but you could consider an accountant a form of technology, because basically you're outsourcing that work to somebody else and they might be making use of different technologies to properly complete those taxes, file them, all that sort of stuff.

Brett Kinsfather [00:20:38]:

And so when we think about things like that, I have just found that I don't want to ever hear from one individual person on a number of different variables. I want to hear from multiple people with diverse backgrounds and diverse experiences in their lives. Talk about that sort of stuff. Because I've spent my entire life in the automotive industry and primarily candidly on the aftermarket side and manufacturing, distribution and now software and I always found the most enlightening interesting things when I heard from people outside the industry or if I heard from a diverse group within the industry. And so that's what I'm hoping we can bring to the audience. So people walk away and go, oh, I didn't think about that. That's pretty interesting. If they can walk away with one of those, I consider it a success, because if you have a room of 50 people or 100 people and they're each walking away with one new thing that they can apply.

Brett Kinsfather [00:21:41]:

That's freaking awesome. And that's what I'm hoping we can do.

Lucas Underwood [00:21:46]:

Over and over and over again we see shop owners. It seems to be most common with technicians who come into the trade or come into shop ownership and they say, I'm going to reinvent the mold, I'm going to reinvent the wheel, I'm going to do something different. There's so much knowledge and so much ability that's brought in with that. But there's also a way that business works, right? Does that make sense? In other words, like a business has to be profitable and we have to put those things together. And so I think that especially the experience of coming to a show like this and talking to somebody or hear how somebody else does it and it's working, gives you a pathway or it gives you an idea of, I can take this back, and maybe I can't implement this to 100% in my shop, but what if I get it to 80%? Roy, what were the motivations for you when you came into this and you started a shop? What were the motivations for you? Did you have some key points where you said, hey, I need to reinvent the wheel or I want to create a new mold? But also there's some things that what were those key aspects? The things that you had to keep what everybody else was doing and then you had some that you wanted to reinvent there? What were those things?

Roy Wragth [00:22:58]:

Man, that is an awesome question and I'm glad that you asked that. I had a bunch, I had like a laundry list and I really had to sit down and figure myself and say, okay, with the resources I've had. I've never been a shop owner full time. What makes the most sense that I can get going in the least time as possible but produce the most effective results? So, as Bret said, I didn't really touch on it. I do design websites and my goal is catered to business owners. And the goal with my website is one, the customer experience from start to finish and two, how much time can I save that business owner throughout the week, right? So for example, my basic site probably saves you four to 6 hours a week. The advanced side will save you ten to 12 hours a week and most of the automations in there are start to finish. So for me, one of the challenges that I had that I was like, okay, maybe I'm not going to reinvent the wheel, but I'm going to do it this way because one, I have control.

Roy Wragth [00:23:57]:

I know how to make the site, I know how to set up the automations, I know how to book the forms. And basically if I can get that customer to come on my website and give them everything they need to know in that front page like, hey, about me, right? This is what we do. This is what we're a part of. Here are free resources. Here's our Google page. Because like Bret was saying earlier, your customers are going to be like, they're going to know about you, so they're going to follow your business, look at your reviews, what you're posting on Instagram. They're going to venture to your personal page, see what you're doing in your life and how that resonates with them. So I took all of that and I was like, I don't really see a solution for this.

Roy Wragth [00:24:32]:

And if it is, I think it's overpriced. For what? We just need to get started. And how can I kind of tail that down? So that's kind of what I did. And it's like when a customer lands on my site, they have everything there. If they need to contact me, there's a form. They literally click the button that says Contact us. That goes, oh, hey, what are you looking to do? Oh, I need to work on my car. Cool.

Roy Wragth [00:24:54]:

That fills out a form that happens to go into Shopmonkey, automatically tells them you're a make and model. So I've already took off. They say, your customers have, what, seven to ten touch points before they even look for getting a sale. So if I've already removed three or four of those just from having everything on the site, here my social media, here's my personal Instagram. Here are groups that we're in. Here's some testimonials. Here are reviews. They're like, oh, these guys look legit.

Roy Wragth [00:25:20]:

Everything checks out across all platforms. Oh, here's how to contact them. Oh, I need service on my car. So all that service writer has to do is reengage with that. And I always tell them, hey, lead with value. Talk to them, get to know them. What are their goals? Don't just take that form and say, oh yeah, we have a package. Here you go.

Roy Wragth [00:25:37]:

Yeah, they're curated, but they're curated to save you time, understand what their goals are, what they're trying to accomplish. Explain to them the process. Like, hey, we would recommend a B or C. A has this These are the pros and cons. S. This is the price point. B has a higher price point. These are the pros and cons.

Roy Wragth [00:25:53]:

This is the reason why the price point is different. C has this. And then they'll be like, oh, let's go with option B. They end up in the middle or something, which is where you want them to end up. And then that's how we go. So I guess my biggest thing to go back to your question and kind of close the loop here is yeah. I wanted to make sure when I was shopping for cars or getting mods done, I want to make sure that no customer had the experience that I had, where it was like, wait three weeks to get the phone, or you never get a phone call back. Or you go in for a quote, they forget about you and I get it.

Roy Wragth [00:26:24]:

We're busy. But at the same times there's tools that can help you. Even if it takes you a day or two to get back, there's tools and resources available that you can still maintain your integrity, your transparency, and not lose that while still be able to do whatever you were doing that would take up your time.

Lucas Underwood [00:26:38]:

Absolutely. And you bring up a good point because one of the things that I've always tried to do with my business is I want to make sure that we're responding as quickly as possible. And the reality is when you have 50, 60 clients coming at you at once and you've got all these people who want information at some point, especially if you're a two or three man operation, you've got to start saying, okay, I've got to prioritize this, somebody's going to get left out. I can't answer everybody, I can't be there for everybody. Tell us a little bit about your shop, Roy. I'm really curious, how many Bays have you got? How many people you got working for you?

Roy Wragth [00:27:14]:

Yeah, so I'm actually a very small shop. This is our second year in business full time. It's me and one tech. I have two, two posts, a four post and a Dyno. So let's say what, three bays and one Dyno and then like just an open area for put cars in there or quick looks or whatever. And honestly my lead does everything. He's a strong OEM, small shop guy, but over the years I've showed him everything I knew on performance. So now he's showing me everything.

Roy Wragth [00:27:44]:

But yeah, and it's like we'll get 200, 300 messages, emails a day and I have tools in place where that gets filtered. And I was like, hey, this customer, this is their name, this is their vehicle, this is what they're looking to get done. So two to 3 hours of my day is spent literally just going line item responding to them. And I can't get to all of them. I might get to 50 in two to 3 hours, but they're still there. And I can come back and say, hey look, sorry I was busy, we were installing a transmission. But I did get your message, give me a couple of days to get back to you. And some of that stuff is automated depending on what they're looking for.

Roy Wragth [00:28:21]:

So yeah, that's kind of what I do because I'm small and then obviously I record everything. That way when someone else comes in, it's in an onboarding playbook, they could be like, here, this is step one, this is step two. Here's an example, this is how you should treat it, blah, blah blah. And then I would just simply so basically the ramp time is less. So that's just kind of one. I know at the seminar I'll have a bunch more. Questions and I'll have my stuff there where I can show people live. But yeah, how can you automate, how can you delegate, how can you prioritize and just keep everything neat and organized so you can really focus on the bread and butter? Like do I want to go lift the F 250 diesel when I know that I don't have the probably not, no.

Roy Wragth [00:29:03]:

Hey, let me send you to this shop. It's a good friend of mine, Nate Temp Curry. You cool. He's taken care of. I can focus on the next car that I can okay. These cars I service, let's get to them first then. Let's get to these guys. So once you get the hang of it, it works.

Lucas Underwood [00:29:19]:

I agree in a lot of ways that's kind of where I started and how my shop came up from the ground up. Bret, when you hear that man, you deal with shop owner clients all the time. Are we seeing a shift? Because for the longest time it felt like we had a lot of folks who would not engage and would not dig into the technology and use it to its fullest. I remember years ago I was using All Data Manage and I was talking to one of their reps and he was asking how things were going with the product and he said it's really interesting. You're using a lot of stuff in this product that most people don't even know is there. Like they don't even explore and look for other stuff or see how it works or see what it does. He said most shops only use maybe 10% of this product's capability and I thought that's really interesting because now here we are all these years later and I'm watching that and I'm seeing how they're not using the products that they have right in front of them that would make life easier and they're already paying for them. Right? Are you still seeing that? Do you think that's a problem that we face with some of these shops or is it getting better?

Brett Kinsfather [00:30:30]:

It will always be a problem because I think it's a human thing. It's very human to settle into that ass groove of comfort and just kind of keep going forward with what you know. And I'm going to speak for myself here because by nature I'm a lazy person and I constantly have to work hard to try new things and push myself out of that comfort zone or out of my lane. And a lot of things happen. You either feel like you're missing the boat when you discover something new and that can be exciting or it can be slightly depressing and you have to think about that because everybody's a little bit different. And so where I'm going with this is I think it's so important to then present material, content, inspiration, all that stuff in a variety of different ways because people will respond in different ways to that sort of stuff. And so that's why I do think that panel discussions are important. I think the posts, Lucas, that you put up, know, what's your weekly win, tell me about it, stuff like that.

Brett Kinsfather [00:31:51]:

And people might not want to raise their hand necessarily right away, but after seeing that for a while and seeing other people kind of clear the path for them, then they might be more comfortable raising their hand or asking a question and starting down that journey where they move away from 10% of what they're comfortable in doing and making use of other tools, equipment, approaches to management or approaches to their overall organization or efficiency and stuff like that. So going back to your initial question, it is a problem. It will always be a problem. And I would say it's up to the companies to really get people engaging in the product offering because it's a two way street. They're going to be able to help their users, but that feedback is also going to help them continue product development. So I think that's really important. But I also think it's another reason why I'm a believer in these sorts of events, whether it's training that occurs at ASTE or Vision or SEMA or Apex, and it's also why people need to be going to that stuff and checking it out.

Lucas Underwood [00:33:14]:

Absolutely.

Brett Kinsfather [00:33:14]:

It's critical. And I would say if you have the time, if you can pick four things to go see and do two or three that you know are going to work for you and that you're looking for and then find something that's totally random and expose yourself to it absolutely. And be like, oh, worst case scenario, you get to sit down for an hour at a trade show. Okay, big deal. But you might be able to walk away from something that you were not looking for with a completely new perspective and a bunch of ideas that you can then take back. And again, like I said before, if you can walk away from an educational seminar, panel discussion, whatever it is, with one new thing that you can try out, that is awesome. That's one of the ways to get things changing and moving in the right direction, whether you're a big company or a small shop or a one person show, for sure.

Lucas Underwood [00:34:17]:

And I'm going to tell you something. I see a large majority of people that they never come to a trade show or they never come to a training, and it turns into a pain point that forces them to go, I don't have enough money. I don't have any techs. There's this thing happening in my life, and it sucks. And so what do they do? They get out and they start getting into the Facebook groups or they search this problem, and then they find out about ASTE or Apex or, you know, we're going to tools this week, whatever it may be, they find out about this training. And then they go and they realize that there was this huge pile of unconscious incompetence, right? Like they just didn't realize. They didn't know that. And so now they get hungry because the knowledge is there.

Lucas Underwood [00:35:08]:

The knowledge is attainable. But you have to reach out for the knowledge. If you just go at it and say, look, it'll be what it'll be, and life sucks and life's terrible and the shop sucks and I hate being here. Sorry, David. And sooner or later, if you just keep living in that life, it's just going to get worse. And so eventually they kind of hit this rock bottom and then they realize and they get hungry for the knowledge. And that's one of the reasons we're always trying to tell people, like, hey, you need to be at a training event. You need to be at one of these trade shows.

Lucas Underwood [00:35:40]:

You need to be where the knowledge is so you can begin to pull from it and don't wait until you hit rock bottom. Now look, they've been telling addicts that for years and it makes no difference. And I'm telling you, shop owners are pretty close on the spectrum as crackheads because we must be if we're doing this for a living, right? At some point you got to say, well, I guess we're all going to hit rock bottom before we go out and look for that information. But man, it's out there. There's no reason to suffer. There's no reason to struggle for it.

Brett Kinsfather [00:36:13]:

No, there isn't. And there's one other thing that I think is worth adding on to this, and that is from a networking perspective, it's a word that gets thrown around a lot. And over time, my view of that has really changed. Now, looking back and just applying what I've learned over the last 22, three years of my career, there are two things that I do, and number one, it's redefining what your win is. It doesn't necessarily have to be coming back with new business. All right, if networking leads to that, fantastic. But I think it's a mistake to have that be your one and only win when it comes to networking. Define that win as just achieving one new genuine connection.

Brett Kinsfather [00:37:12]:

Do that first. And if you go to one of these training things, then go introduce yourself to a panel speaker.

Lucas Underwood [00:37:19]:

Absolutely.

Brett Kinsfather [00:37:22]:

That's something that I would do. And again, it can be a panel speaker, it can be an individual speaker, whatever. Or introduce yourself to the person next to you. Ask them why they're there and you might learn something. Do that sort of networking and then do that every opportunity you get and just keep pushing yourself a little bit more. Even if you're introverted, it's worth it. And as soon as you get done with that show and you're on the plane or you're in the car and you're driving back, that's going to be one of the highlights that you have, I guarantee it. Because you're always going to feel good, and quite frankly, you're going to get something out of it, even if it's just something small, but it's going to be meaningful and it's going to be applicable in one way or another, short term or long term.

Lucas Underwood [00:38:19]:

Yeah, for sure. And look, I'm going to tell you, dude, just this last, I guess it was two weeks ago, one of the attendees, great listener of ours, and I had to push really hard to get them to come to ASTE. I mean, like, had to push hard. And he says, look, I am completely uncomfortable doing this. I don't like being in crowds. I don't like being around these people. And I kept pushing. I said, dude, I said, you just have know right through the middle of the right.

Lucas Underwood [00:38:46]:

Like that's how you make these things better. That's how you eventually get over some of this stuff and begin to work on some of it. And Manny came up before he left, and he shook my hand. He said, I am so glad you made me do and and it's sometimes it's getting outside that comfort zone, and you're exactly right. If you go out and you talk to somebody and you reach out and you network with those people, just the random people, right? You never know who you're talking to. When we're talking about Apex and SEMA, you don't know who it is that you're talking to or shaking hands with. And you can meet some really amazing, really powerful, really smart, really capable people that if you'll just reach your hand out, they are just as kind as anything. Reach your hand out and talk to them, shake hands with them and say, hey, tell me a little bit about yourself, right, and you will change your life, and you might change their life, right.

Lucas Underwood [00:39:33]:

But if you hold that networking to a group of people that only you know, buddy, that group never expands, right? Like, it never gets any better. So you definitely have to do that. Roy, what are you most excited about? You're going to go to Apex and SEMA? Just SEMA.

Roy Wragth [00:39:51]:

I'm going to go to both. I'll probably spend most of my time at SEMA, but I do like to look at Apex and see, hey, what's the latest software? What's coming up? Supporting the industry, basically. So I'll be at cool, very cool.

Lucas Underwood [00:40:04]:

Well, we'll be where we're always at, recording. Unless we're eating. That's the problem with Las Vegas. David likes to eat. And so we end up in every.

Brett Kinsfather [00:40:13]:

Restaurant spots though there are.

Lucas Underwood [00:40:15]:

And he's like, hey, listen, by the way, I know we're not in our recording booth. We're eating. We just need to put a sign up gone to eat on the booth.

Brett Kinsfather [00:40:24]:

Where is your recording booth going to be?

Lucas Underwood [00:40:27]:

Like when you go up the escalators, you know where the stage is at right there for Apex on the second floor. If you look right to the right of the escalators, like, in other words, our booth is facing the escalators. We're up against the windows and we look straight at the escalators. Unless they've moved it, but I don't think they have.

Brett Kinsfather [00:40:44]:

That's very cool. That's very cool.

Lucas Underwood [00:40:46]:

Absolutely. Guys, I can't wait to see you all there. And I can't wait to experience this panel and see it firsthand.

David Roman [00:40:53]:

When is the panel?

Lucas Underwood [00:40:54]:

Yeah, we need to know that.

David Roman [00:40:56]:

Absolutely.

Brett Kinsfather [00:40:57]:

So the panel is Monday, October 30, from one to 02:00 P.m. In room N, as in November 2, five, seven. So if you are familiar with Sema's layout. So this is going to be at the Las Vegas Convention Center in the main area outside of Central Hall, where North Hall and Central Hall kind of come together. There's a big food court there and stuff like that. There are some escalators that go up and then there is a skywalk over to West Hall. It is as you approach that skywalk up on that second level, so you can't miss it once you get up there. And there will be signage everywhere.

Brett Kinsfather [00:41:40]:

But yeah, it's Monday, October 30, from one to 02:00 P.m.. Lucas, I hope you don't mind. Roy is going to be there with obviously tons of knowledge to share, for sure. Jamie Helm, who is a master mechanic, she and her and her sister run a shop and they're just killing it. Philip Lindsley from Titan Motoring, he's got a really great perspective. And, of course, Ken Farley, who's done a ton of SEMA builds and is really getting big in the overlanding scene. So just four people who have tons of knowledge to share. And I think everyone's going to be able to at least walk away with one thing that they can apply.

David Roman [00:42:22]:

Awesome.

Lucas Underwood [00:42:23]:

Can't wait to see you guys there.

Brett Kinsfather [00:42:25]:

Awesome. Thank you so much. All right.

Roy Wragth [00:42:27]:

Thank you, guys.