Changing The Industry Podcast

Scott Hicks [00:00:00]:
Not a problem. Till it's a problem.

Lucas [00:00:01]:
That's exactly right.

David Roman [00:00:03]:
What would you be doing if you were there?

Lucas [00:00:06]:
Probably playing Call of Duty.

David Roman [00:00:09]:
No, the Internet would be out.

Lucas [00:00:11]:
No, we are on a main thoroughfare. So, like, the Internet and the power doesn't go out there. If it does, that means that World War three just happened.

David Roman [00:00:21]:
I see. You know, you don't have backup power or anything like that. No wood stoves. That doesn't get the electricity.

Lucas [00:00:31]:
You don't really need electricity. You heat when it's cold water.

Scott Hicks [00:00:37]:
How are you gonna play Call of.

David Roman [00:00:38]:
Duty if you don't have electricity?

Lucas [00:00:39]:
Not batteries.

Scott Hicks [00:00:40]:
What are you playing Call of Duty on?

Lucas [00:00:42]:
Laptop.

David Roman [00:00:43]:
Oh, yeah, that's true.

Scott Hicks [00:00:45]:
Online.

David Roman [00:00:46]:
Well, I mean, like, for like, two hours, he means. And then it'll be.

Lucas [00:00:49]:
Yeah, that's true.

Scott Hicks [00:00:51]:
Well, no, but my point is you start to have, like, a router and stuff, so that's. You're going to have power.

Lucas [00:00:56]:
Hey, the one at the shop, it.

David Roman [00:00:59]:
Has into the mic, dear.

Lucas [00:01:01]:
The one at the shop has WI fi, like as a 5G backup. Dude, you got it hot as f in here.

David Roman [00:01:08]:
No, I don't.

Scott Hicks [00:01:09]:
It's not.

David Roman [00:01:09]:
You're just.

Scott Hicks [00:01:10]:
You're just moving around too much.

Lucas [00:01:12]:
Yeah, maybe that's true. You were just on a panel with Jeff.

David Roman [00:01:16]:
Yeah.

Lucas [00:01:17]:
What'd you think?

David Roman [00:01:18]:
Nobody could hear anything.

Lucas [00:01:20]:
I know. And Jeff was facing the panelists, not the. Not the crowd.

David Roman [00:01:25]:
No. When he was soliloquian.

Lucas [00:01:28]:
When he was what?

David Roman [00:01:29]:
Soliloquy. And.

Scott Hicks [00:01:32]:
That'S a big word, like mayonnaise.

David Roman [00:01:34]:
I'm pretty sure that's a word.

Lucas [00:01:36]:
Can you give us the definition of the word.

David Roman [00:01:41]:
Solo exposition? Ah, soliloquy. I just don't know if you can verb it. Soliloquy. When he was giving us his soliloquy.

Lucas [00:01:54]:
He was gonna take you home tonight and give you some soliloquy.

David Roman [00:01:57]:
Oh, no. Soliloquies from. I'll pass on that. Maple flavored soliloquy.

Lucas [00:02:04]:
What have you done.

David Roman [00:02:08]:
Jeff?

Lucas [00:02:09]:
Does it come out as maple syrup? I just have to know.

David Roman [00:02:12]:
Oh, no.

Lucas [00:02:16]:
David's out there lapping it up like a dog out of water.

David Roman [00:02:19]:
Kristen writes, poor wife, she's sitting in this class, and apparently they just start flinging inappropriate comments as a joke around the. You know, everybody just keeps throwing another joke. And she's like. I'm like, I'm not around this. This is not what I want to sit through. And she up and left the class.

Lucas [00:02:40]:
What class was it?

David Roman [00:02:41]:
I don't know.

Lucas [00:02:41]:
I don't know if I know Carm Capriotto.

David Roman [00:02:45]:
That was, that was a round table that was in the class.

Lucas [00:02:49]:
Okay.

David Roman [00:02:49]:
I heard it went well, though.

Lucas [00:02:50]:
Yeah, yeah, it looked like it was full, but.

David Roman [00:02:56]:
She. And she was sitting through and she's like, I don't. So I get a little worried because sometimes we say inappropriate things like what you just said.

Lucas [00:03:06]:
Yeah, we're pretty inappropriate.

David Roman [00:03:09]:
Well, what if, what if a technician's wife is listening to this and they're like, this isn't what I signed up for. This is what. This is the filth you listen to. What's the guy supposed to say? Yes.

Lucas [00:03:22]:
Yeah, pretty much. Because let's be honest, at this point, you don't let us talk about anything automotive. And so, like, why am I here again? Yeah, I was trying to figure that out myself. So, I mean, like, it's.

David Roman [00:03:35]:
It's not just about automotive, it's about life. We just happen to be shop owners.

Scott Hicks [00:03:41]:
What's the name?

Lucas [00:03:42]:
You're the one talking about Jeff's little Smokey Change in the industry.

Scott Hicks [00:03:46]:
You know, you did. You didn't say the automotive industry.

Lucas [00:03:49]:
Yeah, we're changing lots of industries.

David Roman [00:03:51]:
So you can't, you can't change the industry if you don't change the people. You can't change the people until you have the conversations, get different ideas out there. People start to consider different things and they go, you know what? I don't want to.

Lucas [00:04:04]:
Hey, you're supposed to take your tongue out.

David Roman [00:04:07]:
That was $15. You tell that guy it's $15 for my pick. This is ridiculous. People taking unauthorized pictures mid talk. Anyway, that was distracting. Next year we close the blinds.

Scott Hicks [00:04:19]:
You really should be on this side.

David Roman [00:04:22]:
What's that?

Scott Hicks [00:04:22]:
You should be on this side.

David Roman [00:04:24]:
No, because all the guests would be like, oh, hey. And then that's distracting to put David.

Lucas [00:04:29]:
Over there on a seat without a back on it.

David Roman [00:04:34]:
Without a back.

Lucas [00:04:35]:
Why?

David Roman [00:04:35]:
Why?

Lucas [00:04:36]:
Just so you can sit there and poke your butt out at them?

David Roman [00:04:39]:
You know, they can, they can. I don't know. I don't know where I was going with that. Anyway, so they're trying. You're trying to change. You're trying to change people, not an industry. You're just trying to. You're trying to change individuals.

Lucas [00:04:56]:
They bring up the dialogue, which encourages them to think outside the box a little bit. Think differently.

David Roman [00:05:04]:
Think differently. Maybe, or maybe not. Maybe it reinforces some of the things that they're doing and then, you know, shake things up a little bit. If we just keep having the same boring ass conversations about, you know, you pay appropriately and take care of the customers. And. See, that's why I don't have one of them deals, like, flag me with the messages. I couldn't. All day long, I'd be looking down every two seconds.

David Roman [00:05:33]:
Saves me from looking at the phone. Yeah, but I don't want to know. It's. It's a surprise because you open your phone like, oh, I got messages. And then it's all spam, and you're like, oh, nobody likes me. I forgot.

Lucas [00:05:45]:
Yeah, he gets messages from me from time to time. I hate you. I get messages from.

David Roman [00:05:51]:
No, that's a voice. It's a voice text. It's a voice message.

Lucas [00:05:53]:
It's a message.

David Roman [00:05:55]:
I didn't say, hey, I wanted to let you know I hate you. Like, thanks, that's great. We.

Scott Hicks [00:06:00]:
We have the kind of relationship where, you know, when one of us needs something, we reach out.

David Roman [00:06:05]:
Yeah. Okay.

Scott Hicks [00:06:06]:
With that.

Lucas [00:06:07]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:06:07]:
Because if he needed more attention than that, I couldn't give it to him.

Lucas [00:06:10]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:06:11]:
At least not constantly. It's. Yeah.

Lucas [00:06:13]:
I mean, I get it. I get it. He's a busy guy.

David Roman [00:06:17]:
He's got a lot of. A lot of fires going. Mobile. Mobile stuff, right?

Scott Hicks [00:06:23]:
A little bit, yeah.

David Roman [00:06:24]:
A little bit. Are you still doing teaching?

Lucas [00:06:27]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:06:27]:
Yeah. Sold on teaching, topped on top done.

Lucas [00:06:31]:
What are you doing for top done?

Scott Hicks [00:06:33]:
Tech support.

Lucas [00:06:34]:
I thought maybe you were babysitting. Hawking.

David Roman [00:06:38]:
Is Hawking your boss?

Scott Hicks [00:06:40]:
Technically. On paper? Yes.

David Roman [00:06:42]:
What does that mean, on paper? Is he's going to hear this going to be like, what do you mean on paper?

Scott Hicks [00:06:47]:
He knows.

David Roman [00:06:48]:
He.

Scott Hicks [00:06:48]:
He's. Yeah, I. Joe, I was joking. I was like, you know, if. If whenever. Or if I ever were to let. Get. Let go, you.

Scott Hicks [00:06:57]:
You know you have to fire me, right? He's like, what? I was like, you have to do it. You are my boss. And he's like, yeah, maybe technically, but I'm not your boss. I was like, I mean, I know, but I want you to do it. If it ever has to happen.

Lucas [00:07:08]:
Hey, this guy's really got a serious toxicity problem, and I'm gonna have to let him go. I need you to sign off on this. You know, Margaret's pretty cool. Never met Mark. You met Margaret?

David Roman [00:07:20]:
Margaret. Who were we talking about?

Lucas [00:07:22]:
Hawkins wife.

David Roman [00:07:23]:
Oh, sure. Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:07:25]:
She should be here anytime now, actually. I think, yeah.

Lucas [00:07:30]:
She's pretty smart.

David Roman [00:07:31]:
A lot of people brought families.

Lucas [00:07:34]:
You feel like it was better show this year?

David Roman [00:07:36]:
How so? It was a good show last year.

Lucas [00:07:39]:
It was, but it seems smoother this year. Maybe it's because I'm on The inside. And I know that it's smoother, but what do you think?

David Roman [00:07:45]:
Were.

Lucas [00:07:45]:
You were here. Yes. Last year, weren't you?

Scott Hicks [00:07:47]:
I was here the last two years. And I can tell you there was some serious, we'll say, leadership issues. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day.

David Roman [00:07:57]:
Lack of direction.

Lucas [00:07:58]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:07:59]:
I mean, at the end of the day, it's all going to fall on one person.

Lucas [00:08:01]:
Mike Allen. Yeah, I know, you're right.

Scott Hicks [00:08:03]:
Well, now. Yeah. But it wouldn't have before.

Lucas [00:08:05]:
No, it would have been. It would have been Mike Allen. Yeah, for the last two years, it would have been Mike Allen.

Scott Hicks [00:08:09]:
Oh, well, then I blame him for not handling the problem sooner.

David Roman [00:08:11]:
Yeah, see, See, we blame everything on Mike Allen. For example, Mike Allen. You shouldn't change the name. That was a terrible idea.

Lucas [00:08:19]:
I'm not going to disagree with you.

David Roman [00:08:21]:
We cross that bridge.

Scott Hicks [00:08:22]:
Absolutely. By the way, this is a podcast recorded at AST24.

David Roman [00:08:29]:
Thank you.

Lucas [00:08:30]:
Yeah, I think I'm. Look, I am the chairperson of the events committee, so if I just say, hey, Jesse, just change all the letters to E instead of A. I mean, like, what are they? You know what I'm saying?

David Roman [00:08:43]:
Yeah.

Lucas [00:08:44]:
I'll just take the blame for it.

Scott Hicks [00:08:47]:
Do it.

Lucas [00:08:47]:
I think that'd be the better way to go.

David Roman [00:08:49]:
I know what he went for. The problem, though, is that had been a really small show and then he wanted to make the change and the sort of rebrand and pivot. But to have like a huge event last year, tons of people. I mean, it was. It was big last year and everybody's excited for it the following year. And then, hey, we changed the name.

Lucas [00:09:13]:
Yeah. A lot of people didn't even know it was still happening because of that.

David Roman [00:09:16]:
Just confusion. Yeah. It's not, you know, it's bigger this year.

Lucas [00:09:22]:
Is it Registration wise? I don't know if that many people showed up because of the weather, but.

David Roman [00:09:29]:
Yeah, I don't know.

Scott Hicks [00:09:30]:
We need to change the timing of this thing, clearly, because every year seems.

Lucas [00:09:34]:
To be a hurricane.

Scott Hicks [00:09:35]:
A hurricane right now.

David Roman [00:09:37]:
There was no hurricane last year.

Lucas [00:09:39]:
It was the one before.

David Roman [00:09:40]:
The year before that there was a hurricane.

Scott Hicks [00:09:42]:
Yeah, you're right.

David Roman [00:09:42]:
You're right.

Lucas [00:09:43]:
And it's really not that big of a deal right now. I mean, it might be a pain in the butt for people to get in and out, but it's not that bad right now.

David Roman [00:09:48]:
No, it should be cleared out by Sunday. Yeah, it'll be. I mean, the country by then.

Lucas [00:09:54]:
What do you think about it this year as a vendor and teacher, are.

David Roman [00:09:59]:
You teaching Are you teaching?

Scott Hicks [00:10:00]:
I'm not teaching at this one.

David Roman [00:10:02]:
See, there you go. Another problem.

Lucas [00:10:04]:
You.

Scott Hicks [00:10:05]:
Yeah, well, I mean, there's. I think CTI has one sponsored instructor here.

Lucas [00:10:11]:
Yeah, but I went to.

Scott Hicks [00:10:13]:
There's lots.

Lucas [00:10:14]:
We had. We had classes change at the last minute, and I said to Jesse to call you or Hawking to see if one of y'all could teach a class. But I don't know how that played out.

Scott Hicks [00:10:23]:
I never heard from anybody.

Lucas [00:10:24]:
I told Hawking. I guess I should have told you. Yeah, Hawking tells everybody everything. I'm sort of surprised.

David Roman [00:10:32]:
Yeah, well, I've never sat through one of your classes. Are they mostly case studies?

Scott Hicks [00:10:40]:
So, I mean, what I had been teaching for the last, you know, almost two years now has been CTI classes redone a little bit. With what? You know, naturally. With my own stuff.

David Roman [00:10:51]:
Sure.

Scott Hicks [00:10:53]:
You know, there's usually case studies in there.

David Roman [00:10:55]:
Yeah. But it's not just case studies. I don't think that seems to be attractive.

Scott Hicks [00:11:00]:
Unless you. Has to be done just right.

David Roman [00:11:02]:
Well, that's a trend. I'm just telling you, like, I don't.

Scott Hicks [00:11:05]:
Know how many teaching moments every time. Otherwise, it's just like, okay, those cool case study. No, that's. No, there's a point behind them. And if there's not, then what's the point? Like. Yeah, I mean, that. That's nothing more than a. You know, I mean, and I think, like, Sean does a great job when he does his.

Scott Hicks [00:11:20]:
With his podcast. When he does, like, okay, well, here's what. You know, it's a case study. But he always points out where he went wrong or what was tough. And. Yeah, I mean, nobody cares about the ones that were easy and went quick, which he obviously gets. And, you know, but he does a really good job of pointing out for.

David Roman [00:11:35]:
Sure this is where I went wrong.

Lucas [00:11:37]:
Right. And that that's a big deal. Right. Because especially when it comes to, like, you know, the number of really basic problems that I overcomplicated and that it was. It was like my misdirection. I took the wrong step and I didn't do the one test. And, you know, like, we had a conversation the other day with Noah, and I don't. You know, it is what it is.

Lucas [00:11:59]:
Like, diags don't always go right, but it was a misfire on a Subaru. And he went to the advisor. I'm not. Like, I used to be in the middle of those communications. They would come to me and say, send it to the advisor, etc. Well, I'm not in the middle of that. And so he had gone and the coil connector was completely snapped off of this car. But the misfire was intermittent.

Lucas [00:12:21]:
And had he done a wiggle test? Had he gone and like, tried to rule out the fact that. And it's not that the ignition coil connector didn't need to be replaced. The ignition coil connector had to be replaced no matter what.

Scott Hicks [00:12:35]:
Right.

Lucas [00:12:35]:
I could have found the problem. All right. Had a faulty injector, I could have found the problem without changing the coil connector. Make sense?

Scott Hicks [00:12:43]:
Sure, absolutely.

Lucas [00:12:44]:
And so it's the little things like that. Those were the mistakes that I always used to make because I'd rabbit hole myself. And I'm going like one direction.

David Roman [00:12:50]:
Hold on, hold on. Time out. So he, he's got a misfire. He sees the connectors broken, swaps quarters.

Lucas [00:12:59]:
Swaps the swaps coal, swaps. I think even swapped the plug trying to expedite, trying to move fast. The misfire didn't move. And he said, hey, I have to change the coil connector before I do anything else.

David Roman [00:13:10]:
Okay.

Lucas [00:13:11]:
And. But the problem was is that because the misfire was intermittent and it couldn't be duplicated by moving the coil connector unless you unplugged it. It would lead me in a direction that, hey, maybe I shouldn't be replacing just the coil connector. There might be something underlying. I prefer to go.

David Roman [00:13:30]:
That the car leaves.

Lucas [00:13:31]:
No, no, no, no.

David Roman [00:13:32]:
Then what's the problem?

Lucas [00:13:33]:
It's not that it's a problem. It's that it's another call back to the client. It's another delay in the shop. It's another thing where we have to stop the process.

David Roman [00:13:42]:
Yeah, but I don't know if the connector was. Was broken. The connector was broken and not working, or it was working, just.

Lucas [00:13:50]:
It was working. It was just broken.

David Roman [00:13:51]:
Oh, right. Okay.

Lucas [00:13:53]:
Right.

Scott Hicks [00:13:53]:
I mean, I just, you know, so I did a network class last week and I did another one beginning of this week. And one of the things that, you know, I was. It just happened to come up with where we were basically trying to prove out, okay, is this a module or a communication issue? And again, when you're dealing with communication things, it's not always a communication problem as much as it is just a powering ground or something.

Lucas [00:14:14]:
Yeah, for sure.

Scott Hicks [00:14:15]:
And so, you know, one of the things in there was, you know, I emphasize. And it, I think it really sets people apart when they're doing diagnostics is if, okay, I need to replace this and then we can go from there. Well, hold on. What is it that we're trying to achieve by doing this?

Lucas [00:14:30]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:14:30]:
Can we bypass it? Can we overlay? Can we do something to make it work for now, to rule it out? Anything beyond that?

Lucas [00:14:39]:
Yeah, me too.

Scott Hicks [00:14:39]:
So now I believe it's always easier to talk about it than it is to remember when you're in the moment. It's always harder when you're in it. Right there.

Lucas [00:14:47]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:14:48]:
So. But yeah, just to be able to do something like that and be able to say, okay, no, I know the rest is good, or no, we still have something else going on.

Lucas [00:14:55]:
Well, you know, one of the things that I found, especially when it comes to network diag, is that it seems to be the one thing that people pigeonhole or panic home all the time. Right. But at the end of.

David Roman [00:15:09]:
Huh, Why?

Lucas [00:15:11]:
I think they tell themselves it's more complex than it is. They overthink themselves out and they psych themselves out and they begin to like, try and make shifts and changes and like, think about the number of times that you've changed something on a car that affected something else. And it's like, dude, before you change anything, like, let's collect data first. Let's slow down for a minute. Let's understand how it works before we do anything else. Because if you don't, like, that's the biggest issue is they don't understand how it works. So they start to like, reel and they start to like, throw things at it and panic and try and do this one test, but they don't know how to interpret the test. Right.

Lucas [00:15:48]:
And so it's like, I'll never forget asking Eric. I said one time he had can high circuit up on a lab scope. And I said, tell me, what does that mean? He just looked at me with his blank stare. I said, seriously, like, what does it mean? He's like, I don't know. It's. It's dropping packets somewhere. I'm trying to figure it out. And I'm like, hmm, tell me what that means.

Lucas [00:16:16]:
And he said, I don't understand. I said, well, what's the network communicate at? What voltage does the network communicate at? Tells me. I said, okay, is it at 0 volts? No. Okay, is it at 12 volts? He said, no. I said, okay, what does that mean? He said, I don't know. You tell me. It means it's not shorted to power and it's not shorted to ground. Like, let's start ruling out like the little things and start trying to understand.

Scott Hicks [00:16:41]:
I mean, I believe 90, 95% of network problems can be solved with you know, Tesla or, and, or a multimeter. I mean, you don't, you rarely need much more than that.

Lucas [00:16:51]:
Dude, I'm telling you, I go to a voltmeter and either a load pro or a test light on the voltmeter, right? Just to put a little bit of load on something. And that's. If I'm working in the shop, that's 90% what I use.

David Roman [00:17:03]:
What?

Lucas [00:17:04]:
And like, Eric's over here pulling the scope out, confusing the, out of himself. He's like, I don't know what's going on.

Scott Hicks [00:17:11]:
And, you know, it's, it's easy to do until you realize that if you stop and think about the whole thing and what you're actually looking at in the day, you know, communication, what really. Is it still just voltage?

Lucas [00:17:21]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:17:21]:
Is it in the right range? Is it doing what it should look like it's doing? Move on.

Lucas [00:17:27]:
You know, I'm curious to see, you know, right now we're still primarily on can. There are some fiber networks in cars. I'm curious to see the day that we go to a star configuration Ethernet network.

Scott Hicks [00:17:44]:
Oh, we're on them, right.

Lucas [00:17:46]:
Well, I'm talking about like, Widespread.

Scott Hicks [00:17:48]:
Sure, sure.

Lucas [00:17:49]:
Because I love that. Right. In other words, for instance, with a network snooping tool, I can look at it and say, all right, what can I talk to? What can I find? What's the address? Right. And I think that that for me is a much easier way of looking at it. Like right now we have all these communications on one network, one circuit, and I can't really look at those communications and pinpoint by looking at the waveform, there's that message right there. And I know that message is faulty. Right. Whereas with Ethernet, I can say, okay, I want to talk to this address.

Lucas [00:18:22]:
Tell me what this address says. How fast can I get to this address? Right. I'm able to go back and forth and talk to it, and I can understand the protocol. I'm really curious to see what their, like, what their protocol is going to be and the access protocol. Right? Because, like, they're going to want it to go through their scan tool, the OE tool. They're not really going to want to tell you, hey, here's this network address. I'm like wanting a command prompt so I can pull up a command prompt and ask it questions, right?

Scott Hicks [00:18:50]:
I'm going to ping it and find out what happens.

Lucas [00:18:51]:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I think that that's going to be a. Which, I mean, you know, gm, when we were at eti, that was one of the neat things that GM was talking about because like they were talking about their network infrastructure in the automobile. And they said, you know, we started with a computer and sensors and all the sensors reported back to the computer. And then we went and we expanded that to where we had multiple computers and sensors feeding multiple computers, community communicating across a network between the computers. And then we went to where each of the end devices, door lock modules, door modules, seat modules, they all are their own computer, as opposed to having a switch, right. And now they're going the exact opposite direction and they're going to have the gateway modules and they're going to have modules configured in such a way that, that there are unsecured side modules.

Lucas [00:19:46]:
Right? So in other words, this is outside the secured network. This is inside the secured network. And everything reports back to those modules in a tiered fashion. Right. And so I'm just curious to see because I like, I love the engineering of that. I love like network configuration. Dude, I love it. I eat it up.

Lucas [00:20:08]:
What?

David Roman [00:20:08]:
It's stupid.

Lucas [00:20:10]:
Why is it stupid?

Scott Hicks [00:20:12]:
Like, I mean, that wasn't nice. We. You think we don't. We don't say food's stupid.

David Roman [00:20:18]:
Food stupid.

Scott Hicks [00:20:20]:
Right? But that, See, that's not that, that's nice.

Lucas [00:20:24]:
You think of like the network in your shop, right? Like being able to look at that and understand what it does and why it does what it does.

David Roman [00:20:31]:
I don't. Does it work? That's it.

Lucas [00:20:34]:
But when it doesn't work, it's a pain in the butt.

David Roman [00:20:35]:
I go buy a new one.

Lucas [00:20:39]:
It's like, got this mesh wifi network, right? And he's got this sucker set up.

David Roman [00:20:45]:
And I'm like, dude, no, no, I bought the ubiquity.

Lucas [00:20:48]:
I gave you the ubiquity.

David Roman [00:20:49]:
No, no, I didn't use that thing. Was like, it was. I tried to get it out of the box and was so old it like started disintegrating my hands. This was way before I bought a. I bought the. You sent me a link. Anyway, I bought the little, little doodad. I've got one in the, in the front of the shop and the one in the back of the shop.

David Roman [00:21:10]:
And it all connects. The little ubiquity box. It's crazy fast.

Lucas [00:21:14]:
You know, here's, here's what's interesting about that.

David Roman [00:21:17]:
Everybody complains about it. They're like, your Internet sucks. It's not the Internet, dude. It's your device or the website.

Lucas [00:21:24]:
It's the installer. It's just one wire configurations that you have to do inside Right. And band optimization. And.

David Roman [00:21:34]:
I don't know what you're saying. I let the app do it. The app does it on my computer.

Scott Hicks [00:21:42]:
I.

Lucas [00:21:42]:
You know, there were. There were people who were.

David Roman [00:21:46]:
He's a tinkerer. He's going to go in and he's like, I'm going to read the manual or. No, he's not going to read the manual. He's going to watch YouTube videos that explain the manual. And then he's going to be like, see, what it does is nobody's going to care. And he's going to sit there and tinker with it and get maybe 10% better performance than you would just out of the box. Boom.

Scott Hicks [00:22:05]:
That's what makes us good at what we do.

David Roman [00:22:07]:
How does that make you good?

Scott Hicks [00:22:09]:
It's an entire mindset. It's how we do approach things.

David Roman [00:22:13]:
To tinker, to know how it works.

Scott Hicks [00:22:16]:
To fix it, to mess with it, to change it.

David Roman [00:22:18]:
I'm okay knowing how it works. Maybe it just depends. Like, if I'm going to spend time learning it, I got to know that there's a return. I'm going to figure this out, learn this. And here's the return. If the return is you get slightly faster Internet, not double the speed. That kind of makes sense. But you're going to get slightly better Internet and less congestion.

David Roman [00:22:42]:
You get 75 devices on here. They'll all work fairly the same. For the most part.

Scott Hicks [00:22:48]:
You and I have very different types of adhd.

David Roman [00:22:52]:
I don't have adhd. That's insane.

Scott Hicks [00:22:55]:
I clearly do. And it's, no, I can fix this.

Lucas [00:23:01]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:23:01]:
And then hours later, it's usually fixed, but it's like, wow, that's a lot of time that's gone.

Lucas [00:23:06]:
It is.

Scott Hicks [00:23:06]:
I do know a lot more now.

Lucas [00:23:08]:
And you have. You have to balance it. Right? Like, you have to balance that. Because especially as a shop owner, one of the things I've ran into is I liked being the hero and I like going out and fixing the cars and I like finding the problems that nobody else has. And I have had to take myself and say, that's not where your knowledge and the effort that you put in to learn something is valuable to the shop anymore. Right.

David Roman [00:23:29]:
I like to know about the problem. I will say that. I'm not saying that. I don't do that. You know, I had an issue with the washing machine. It's a fairly new washing machine. I'm really annoyed that these things are all junk. By the way, my dryer is from, like, 1997.

David Roman [00:23:47]:
Still works.

Lucas [00:23:48]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:23:48]:
Just fine. The washing machine, however, whatever. So, I mean, did I start looking up and I'm like, okay, let's figure out how this thing works and this, that. But I did set myself a limit where I'm like, hey, I'm gonna only put so much effort into this. What I don't wanna do is get screwed. I don't want somebody to come in here and just start telling me a bunch of junk. I haven't looked into it. I'm skeptical, like I said, of everything.

David Roman [00:24:14]:
And so I wanna be able to know that if somebody, if I do have to order, have a repairman come in, I'm gonna know enough that I'm gonna know whether they're BS and me or not. That's my limit though, because I don't care about washing machines. I could give two craps about learning about them.

Scott Hicks [00:24:30]:
I just went through this with. With mine. I just stopped. Wouldn't unlock, wouldn't do anything. Lid wouldn't open. Is full of clothes that we need, of course.

David Roman [00:24:41]:
Yeah, I know.

Scott Hicks [00:24:41]:
I think it was our towels or something. So.

David Roman [00:24:43]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:24:45]:
And I was like, I guess I need to take a look at this. I'm getting ready to head out of town.

Lucas [00:24:50]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:24:50]:
And we have a home warranty too. We pay a deductible and either they fix it or we get a new one.

David Roman [00:24:56]:
Right.

Scott Hicks [00:24:57]:
I went through and I looked at it and it took a couple hours ultimately because I had to try to find some information that was that available. But I mean, it needed a main board. The. It was not the. Basically the code came down to say it is not receiving power.

Lucas [00:25:13]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:25:13]:
Okay.

Scott Hicks [00:25:13]:
Okay. You don't have power coming from the wall. Okay. That's clearly there. And I'm. I'm looking at. I'm on the board testing. And it's like it's got power to the board.

Lucas [00:25:21]:
So there's only so much I can do beyond this. Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:25:24]:
And so I said, I mean, according to the service manual, that's where I would be. And that's where I would say, we need a board.

Lucas [00:25:29]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:25:29]:
Because that's all they're going to do if at that. And so I was like, okay, well, this isn't something. Well, how much is this board? If it's not that much, I'll just do it now. It's four or five hundred dollars for the board.

David Roman [00:25:39]:
I'm like, you get another washing machine for that.

Scott Hicks [00:25:41]:
So they come out, of course, like I had to leave. Then they come out and look at it and they're like, okay, well the I had to get the stuff out and let it dry out, take it somewhere to get it cleaned. So opening it, I'm like, okay, where's this circuit go? And I basically unlocked it myself. I just applied power from another part of it and popped it.

David Roman [00:26:01]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:26:02]:
And so the guy comes out, he's looking, he's like, oh, this lock doesn't. Doesn't seem to work. And this is all I find out afterwards because I'm gone and my wife's there, and she said. She said the lock wouldn't work. And she's like, did you mess with the lock? And no. He's like, okay, because if you mess with the lock, it's not covered. Good call, babe.

David Roman [00:26:21]:
I'm like, well, why would that have to do with it?

Scott Hicks [00:26:25]:
And then he's like, well, I've got to order this lock if I can do anything. And he said, listen, I know this isn't going to fix it, but this is what I have to start with. And that's my whole point of what we just talked. Right?

Lucas [00:26:32]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:26:32]:
And I'm like, that was a cop out.

Scott Hicks [00:26:34]:
It was.

David Roman [00:26:34]:
That was 100% of a cop out. Like, see, that's what I'm talking about. That's why I'm like, I'm gonna dig into this and be like, that guy is BSing me.

Lucas [00:26:42]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:26:42]:
Like, I know he's BS me. You kind of get the vibe sometimes, even if you don't know, like, that guy's bs.

Lucas [00:26:47]:
But the thing is, is they don't. The reason many of them are BSing you is because they don't know.

Scott Hicks [00:26:53]:
They're not trained.

Lucas [00:26:53]:
Yeah. They're just guessing.

Scott Hicks [00:26:55]:
Absolutely.

Lucas [00:26:56]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:26:56]:
Then what am I paying them for?

Lucas [00:26:59]:
I wish you we had the answer to that. But that's.

Scott Hicks [00:27:03]:
Well. And it took. It took almost two weeks for that lock to come in and then get it back out there.

Lucas [00:27:10]:
And then just to say.

David Roman [00:27:11]:
Just to say it needs a board.

Lucas [00:27:12]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:27:13]:
And then he did that. He's like, oh, it's doing the same thing. And I said, yeah, absolutely. Doing the same thing. Right. I said, you knew this wasn't going to fix it. And because I wasn't there the first time, so I was like, you knew that wasn't going to fix it. You probably could have bypassed that and found something else out.

Scott Hicks [00:27:25]:
And I also understand and empathize with him a little bit that he probably got this job and has not been really trained. So it's.

David Roman [00:27:34]:
I don't know.

Scott Hicks [00:27:34]:
I don't know where.

David Roman [00:27:36]:
Yeah. How do you get training?

Scott Hicks [00:27:37]:
How Are you training for that? If you work for a company and they don't train you.

David Roman [00:27:40]:
800,000 different washing machine models, Honestly, a.

Scott Hicks [00:27:45]:
Basic electoral class like we would do would not really help them.

Lucas [00:27:50]:
90% of it.

David Roman [00:27:51]:
Yeah, maybe 90. It would. It wouldn't. If. If the manufacturer gave them schematics.

Lucas [00:27:58]:
Well, that would. Yeah, that's what I was.

David Roman [00:28:00]:
Oh, okay.

Lucas [00:28:01]:
That's what I was getting ready to say.

David Roman [00:28:02]:
Yeah. He's got no excuse. Is the schematics is like. That's where I get, like, upset because I'm. I'm in there going, I need a wine diagram.

Lucas [00:28:10]:
Yep.

David Roman [00:28:10]:
Like, that's what I need.

Scott Hicks [00:28:11]:
Absolutely.

Lucas [00:28:11]:
Yeah. Well, here's the thing, is that there is a little bit of planned obsolescence happening.

Scott Hicks [00:28:17]:
Yes.

Lucas [00:28:18]:
And you know, I've upset people before when I've said, I just do not think that dealer. I'm not talking about manufacturers. Okay. I know. I know some of the manufacturers and they've offered to put on training for us. I know that manufacturer training from the manufacturer is good. Right. I know that's good training.

Lucas [00:28:37]:
The training that the dealers are advocating for their technicians is not designed to teach them to be technicians. It's designed to teach them to be parts changers.

Scott Hicks [00:28:48]:
Right.

Lucas [00:28:50]:
And it sucks. It's frustrating. I hate it. I don't like it a bit. But that is exactly where we're at. And if. I guess my point in saying that is we talk about. Right.

Lucas [00:29:03]:
To repair a lot. If we don't stand up and at least get some type of legislation, we will go the same direction that washing machines have gone. You have to replace it. You have to replace it.

David Roman [00:29:16]:
I'm not against that. I have no problem with that. If the cars are cheap.

Lucas [00:29:21]:
Yeah, I could see that.

David Roman [00:29:22]:
Because if it's 800, if it's $8,000 to fix the car, you can get another one for nine. You just get another car.

Scott Hicks [00:29:29]:
I'm with you 100%.

Lucas [00:29:31]:
They can't be.

David Roman [00:29:31]:
$60,000 for a sedan and 110 for a truck. That's the problem.

Scott Hicks [00:29:37]:
Yeah.

Lucas [00:29:37]:
I was talking to Carm yesterday, and Carm said.

David Roman [00:29:41]:
Carm Capriotto.

Lucas [00:29:42]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:29:42]:
Remarkable results. Radio.

Lucas [00:29:43]:
Yep.

Scott Hicks [00:29:44]:
Is there another one?

Lucas [00:29:45]:
I think there's another car. Is there?

David Roman [00:29:47]:
Okay.

Scott Hicks [00:29:47]:
Just want to make sure. Since he asked.

Lucas [00:29:49]:
Well, so I was talking to Carm and Carm said, you know, well, what do you think happens then when the Chinese flood the market with super, super cheap Chinese car?

David Roman [00:30:02]:
Papa Biden, Stop that nonsense. He did. He stopped it. They were going to. They're 100% coming to market. And then when they, they threw up the tariffs and said, hey, it's going to be 100% tariffs to import these electric vehicles. China went to Mexico and said we're just going to build them in Mexico and then flood the market with them.

Scott Hicks [00:30:29]:
Byd.

Lucas [00:30:31]:
But I guess, I guess my point.

David Roman [00:30:33]:
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Lucas [00:30:35]:
Yeah, I think my point.

David Roman [00:30:36]:
They're like $9,000.

Lucas [00:30:38]:
Yeah. And at that point, I mean, what does that do? What economic impact does that have on the United States economy? What impact does it have on gdp?

David Roman [00:30:51]:
If the factories and the manufacturer, the tier one manufacturers are in the US Then it's whatever, it's just a market shaker. The problem is it's all coming in from overseas. They're getting the benefits. Chinese companies, Chinese investors, Mexican factories. And the consumer wins, I guess because now they have cheap EVs to buy. And you're just trying to get from point A to point B. Like me, I could give a crap what that car does to my phone.

Scott Hicks [00:31:23]:
And can I go to it for that entire infrastructure?

David Roman [00:31:27]:
What's that?

Scott Hicks [00:31:28]:
What about everybody that's employed to support that infrastructure currently?

David Roman [00:31:33]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. The consumer will win and it's everybody else that is going to lose. Yeah, the consumer.

Scott Hicks [00:31:38]:
It's going to really impact everyone else that relies on those jobs to.

David Roman [00:31:43]:
Yeah, well, that's why they stopped it.

Lucas [00:31:46]:
It impacts the repair industry.

David Roman [00:31:48]:
Right.

Lucas [00:31:48]:
Even independent. It impacts the dealership. Right. And I, you know, everybody's screwed.

David Roman [00:31:55]:
And it's not that the, from a capitalism standpoint, you want to let the market do what it does. The problem is the Chinese government is subsidizing that Mark.

Lucas [00:32:05]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:32:05]:
That the production of those. It's a $20,000.

Lucas [00:32:09]:
You can't say that.

David Roman [00:32:12]:
It's a twist.

Lucas [00:32:13]:
Yeah, I was just kidding.

David Roman [00:32:15]:
That was a bad joke.

Scott Hicks [00:32:16]:
Let's face it, top down, USA is just top down.

Lucas [00:32:19]:
Yeah, well, I mean, look, at least it's not autel, right?

David Roman [00:32:23]:
They are. What. Why are you trying to burn bridges here? I love the Autel. I think it's fantastic. I would have bought an A1 900 or A. What is it?

Lucas [00:32:35]:
I.

David Roman [00:32:35]:
A 900? Yeah. IA. Yeah, it's an IA 900. That's what I would have bought and said. You bought a Think Car thing or whatever. What are they called?

Scott Hicks [00:32:47]:
Is it a Think the Thing, Launch, Think Car.

David Roman [00:32:52]:
They're all the same.

Scott Hicks [00:32:54]:
Similar.

David Roman [00:32:55]:
Similar. Yeah.

Lucas [00:32:56]:
And you know what? That top down works really well. Like I got one for heavy duty. It works so well.

Scott Hicks [00:33:02]:
Works even better. When you do the updates.

Lucas [00:33:03]:
Yeah, I was gonna say as long as it's charged and as long as your technician installed the updates. Yeah, yeah.

David Roman [00:33:09]:
Otherwise, that was the old. That was the old. The directive on the autel. Like, hey, don't update unless you can't do something. Then try to do the update and see if it'll go. That's what they tell you on the autel.

Lucas [00:33:27]:
Yeah. Something happened past few weeks, and they said update all of them. They don't work. Sorry, our bad. What do you think of that? There's a lot of hurt feelings right now.

Scott Hicks [00:33:44]:
I mean, there's a lot I don't know, right?

Lucas [00:33:47]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:33:48]:
Let's face it. There's a whole lot I don't know that I'm really trying to go to eti, but if you listen to this, I never go to eti, so there's a lot I don't know that I think I could get some answers there. However, at the end of the day, if they're going to try to comply with what Nasty wants, they've got to play by the rules right now, right here.

Lucas [00:34:13]:
Okay, so here's my take. Okay. Here's where I think all this went sideways. There were recordings that released of Donnie that were not like, from nasdaq, that were edited, and they were edited to make it sound like he was saying something different. I can't speak 100% for what they're doing and why they're doing and all that stuff. What I can tell you is say, I don't think that they're bad people, and I don't think it's just about making money based on what I've seen, not what they've said, based on what I've seen.

David Roman [00:34:42]:
Who, Nasty?

Lucas [00:34:42]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:34:43]:
I thought they were a nonprofit.

Lucas [00:34:44]:
They are. Second thing, what the crap?

David Roman [00:34:46]:
Who's. Who's complaining?

Lucas [00:34:48]:
Okay, well, there's a lot of people upset about access. The second thing is this.

David Roman [00:34:52]:
I'd be upset about access.

Lucas [00:34:54]:
The same person who did all that was also saying bad things about etiquette. Now, I know the people at eti. David knows the people at eti. They are not bad people. And they are absolutely in no way, shape or form working to do anything to hurt this industry. They're not working to lock people out. They're not working to make sure certain people don't have access. They're not working to make money from this.

Lucas [00:35:16]:
They're working to make sure that we have what we need to fix cars. And they're working very, very hard to make the Manufacturers come to the table and say, hey, here's the data you need. Let's work together, let's make this better, let's provide the access. Right? There's zero doubt in my mind. I mean, I'm telling you, like, not even a hint. And so I watch those people when some of those videos came out and we were sitting at dinner in California and I asked, I said, how do you feel about that? They said, well, we can sit here and laugh because we know, like you're sitting here, you know that's not true. We know it's not true. Everybody that attended knows that's not true.

Lucas [00:35:56]:
Why would we worry about it? Like, why would that person have any weight with us? Why would it?

Scott Hicks [00:36:02]:
Right?

Lucas [00:36:02]:
And so a, it frustrates me because I know that lies are being shared about them. Right? And these are people I care about. These are people who have done a lot to help us. So that's one, two is I learned from, from attending ETI that it's not Donnie doing this, it's not ETI doing this, it is the manufacturers doing this. And one way or another, they're either going to lock us out or we're going to play by their rules to gain the access. And so from my perspective, it's not a situation of NASTIF is doing this. It's Nastif is saying, oh, if we don't do something and we don't have a protocol and we don't have a right way to do this, then they're just going to say, no, you can't have it. So instead of getting to that point, let's provide a protocol so we can show them a measure of good faith and say, hey, we're trying to do this right.

Lucas [00:36:58]:
Look at what we've done.

David Roman [00:36:59]:
Right?

Scott Hicks [00:37:01]:
The complaints that I've heard that seem reasonably valid about Nastif in general and it's not been that they shouldn't exist. That is incredibly small minded and it's just ridiculous. You're completely ignorant speaking. Right. So they absolutely have a place. But what kind of oversight? Do they have any?

Lucas [00:37:24]:
No, the board, they've got a really awesome board of directors.

David Roman [00:37:27]:
Okay, well that's your oversight because you could participate. The board of directors sets the direction.

Lucas [00:37:34]:
Yeah. They send out letters and emails and say, hey, if you want to be on the board, you can send in your board nomination. Anybody can be elected. Keith was elected. Right. Like so.

Scott Hicks [00:37:45]:
And again, I'm not, I don't really take sides on it because I really just want to know. Yeah, I Just I'm more curious about truth than I care about.

Lucas [00:37:55]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:37:55]:
The rest. But that's the one valid thing I've kind of heard is the lack of oversight. And coming down to it all seems to come from the same group of people. You know, the good old voice system. Right. Oh, we'll get you on the spot. Or something to that effect. Right.

Scott Hicks [00:38:11]:
And again, just to the fact that there's not any true oversight is the biggest thing I've seen. I said, well, the things possibly see that. But other than that, I appreciate what they're trying to do because they've gotten a lot done for us. Is it everything they could do? Probably not. Again, I don't know, though, because I'm not part of it.

Lucas [00:38:30]:
The thing is, it is very difficult to get traction in that arena.

Scott Hicks [00:38:35]:
Yeah, I mean, I can imagine.

Lucas [00:38:37]:
I'm sure after talking to Chad and having some conversations within Top Don, it's not just as easy as walking up and saying, I need this or I want to reverse engineer this. Like, there's some work that goes into this. Right. And what my perspective, I think that there are communication issues with nasdaq. Right. If I was going to say there was an issue with nasdaq, it's communication. And I understand Donnie's perspective, but I think he would get more flies with honey than vinegar. Okay.

Lucas [00:39:08]:
And I think that if he were to approach this from. Let me show you what we're doing. Not like I'm in control. You just do what we say to do, I think that would come off a little bit better. And I'm not saying he necessarily does that, but there's been a couple instances. That's why that video was able to spin it to the degree that it did is because of the way that he approached it. And I think that was a lot of the reason that that happened. But if you want to know who I'm afraid of, if you want to know, like, what terrifies me for our industry has nothing to do with the manufacturers because they're willing to play ball and they're willing to come to the table.

Lucas [00:39:43]:
Now, do they want us to do certain things to ensure that these cars are safe? And truthfully, I think it's a mistake to say it's about theft. I don't think it's about theft.

Scott Hicks [00:39:52]:
That's been one of my. That's my only thing. Because if you take. Unless let's. You look at. You guys are business owners, right. You have shops, successful shops. So do you go after things that are less than 1% of the issues? No, not at all.

Scott Hicks [00:40:04]:
Right.

Lucas [00:40:04]:
No, it'd be stupid.

Scott Hicks [00:40:05]:
Take the number of cars on the road, the number of issues. We're less than 1%. Why? Why is that the focus?

Lucas [00:40:11]:
Yeah. I don't.

Scott Hicks [00:40:11]:
I'm not saying it's not a large number. Yeah, but it's not.

Lucas [00:40:14]:
I don't think. I don't think that. I think it's the. And maybe there's a political reason that it's not been shared. I personally believe. And I don't know this. Nobody said this to me. I personally think that they know that the manufacturers are going to come back and say, eventually we're going to cut your access and you need to have protocols in place.

Lucas [00:40:36]:
And if you want to do that, because I've been part of some of those conversations where manufacturers have said, like, hey, we're all free working on the carpet. Like our names on the front of the effing thing. And so we want it fixed properly. And so if you're going to fix the car, we at least want some sort of confidence in you that you know what the hell you're doing. Right. And so that makes sense to me. Right. I don't have a problem with that.

Lucas [00:40:56]:
And so I think that a large part of the discussion, a large part of the problems that we're seeing are that. That at the end of the day, this is a preemptive strike to say to the manufacturers, we're doing what we need to do so we can work as industry partners, not as adversaries. Right. The people who effing scare me are the dealers. The dealer networks are the dangerous ones. Right. If you want to talk about a threat to the manufacturers, you want to talk about a threat to the independent repair shops, you want to talk about a threat to some aspects of the US Economy. The dealers are dangerous and they have the money.

Lucas [00:41:36]:
Right. I heard a manufacturer say, you think we're sitting up here with a bunch of money to fight this? Like, we don't have anything compared to the dealer associations. Like, we're giant manufacturers, but they have more money than us.

Scott Hicks [00:41:49]:
I'm glad you went there because, you know, obviously I don't know some of those aspects of it, but that's the thing I'm thinking. My first thought is, I understand you want it fixed. Right. So why don't you start in house? Yeah, that's my first thought. And it's not to take away from the manufacturer in general, but it comes down to, again, leadership at that individual dealership or that. That group. Right. It stuff rolls downhill.

Scott Hicks [00:42:15]:
And if you don't keep an eye on things, you don't make sure that you're hiring the right people. You don't require the training or you just allow people to do whatever. Yeah, I mean, how many parts do get thrown at things?

Lucas [00:42:27]:
But, I mean, here's the thing. They don't care, right? They don't care that they. They. You remember the Noah story? Did I ever tell you the Noah story? Talking about. Talking about his previous dealership he was working at before he came to work for me. We're talking and.

Scott Hicks [00:42:44]:
No, I think I missed. I missed that.

Lucas [00:42:46]:
So we're talking about it. And this is. This is before he comes to work for me. And. And we've had a couple small chats here and there, and he said something to the tune like, I just don't understand this place. They've got, like, all the room in the world, and they could expand and they could put new equipment in the shop and they could do all these things. We're really busy, but they're, like, not investing into the shop at all. And I'm like, oh, they're getting ready to sell it.

Lucas [00:43:10]:
He's like, no, no, no. They said, we're all family n dude. They're getting ready to sell it.

Scott Hicks [00:43:15]:
Right?

Lucas [00:43:15]:
Like, that's why they don't invest in it. And so what do they do? Sell a dealership and they don't tell anybody. One day somebody walks in and says, hey, by the way, we sold the place. We're your new bosses, you know? And so the dealers, many of these, especially as we expand into dealer groups, right, they have more influence over the training content that's provided. And if you think there's not discussions that have happened within some of these dealer groups, because I know for a fact I was talking to somebody just the other day who was telling me there are discussions that say, no, we don't teach voltage drop testing. We teach resistance testing. Why? Well, because resistance testing is harder to understand. And if you tell them to do a resistance test, it's got all these numbers on the screen and it changes and it's not consistent.

Lucas [00:44:12]:
It's much more complex. It's much more complex. And they can't just, like, file that down to a basic understanding. So what do they do? They start changing things and they start getting in their head and they start getting overwhelmed. And so now we're changing parts, fixing cars, and we're not training our competition for the future. And those exact conversations have been had. Now, this was at a particular dealership brand. And so they.

Lucas [00:44:39]:
They had been petitioning the manufacturer, like, hey, we don't want you to be training them some of this. And so I thought that was really interesting, that they intentionally were making sure that their technicians weren't getting the type of training that we have in the aftermarket. In fact, they've been encouraged. This particular dealer group says, we don't authorize you to attend training outside of what we provide. So what does that tell you?

Scott Hicks [00:45:08]:
I mean, I can't say I'm surprised. I mean.

Lucas [00:45:13]:
Yeah, I know, right?

Scott Hicks [00:45:14]:
It's. It's. It's all about. It's, you know, it's like the education system is that to teach people to flourish and to be financially independent. So. No, absolutely not.

Lucas [00:45:24]:
No.

Scott Hicks [00:45:24]:
It's designed to teach you to help our economy grow by working in it.

Lucas [00:45:29]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:45:29]:
That's all it is.

Lucas [00:45:30]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:45:31]:
It's all to support, you know, banking and money and it's. Yeah.

David Roman [00:45:37]:
What, the lizard people?

Lucas [00:45:39]:
The pizzard people?

David Roman [00:45:40]:
Yeah, the pizzard people.

Lucas [00:45:42]:
Who's the pizzard people?

David Roman [00:45:43]:
They live on the ground, on the hollow earth. Everybody knows that.

Scott Hicks [00:45:46]:
Wow, was that a spin there? Just to say everything we're saying is nonsense. Don't worry about it.

David Roman [00:45:53]:
No.

Scott Hicks [00:45:53]:
Complete misdirection.

David Roman [00:45:55]:
It's a lizard. Mark Zuckerberg. He's a lizard person.

Scott Hicks [00:45:59]:
Here we go.

David Roman [00:46:00]:
You really California lizard person.

Lucas [00:46:03]:
You think so?

David Roman [00:46:04]:
Oh, absolutely.

Lucas [00:46:06]:
What do you think their intent is?

David Roman [00:46:08]:
What's that?

Lucas [00:46:09]:
What do you think their intent is?

David Roman [00:46:10]:
World domination. Culling the herd, too? Killing us all off. There's too many of us breathing their air. They wiped out half of Hawaii. Who's going to come in and buy the land? Exactly. They're going to come in and buy the land up so they can have their huge estates, then sell the rest of it off to investors.

Scott Hicks [00:46:35]:
This is why people talk about you, David.

Lucas [00:46:38]:
No, no. It's what he does when the lights turn off that people talk about him.

Scott Hicks [00:46:43]:
Oh, interesting.

Lucas [00:46:46]:
I don't. Man. I guess him and Jeff are rooming right next to me. You should hear the noise that comes from that room.

David Roman [00:46:54]:
Listen, I am just saying that I would have a different preference than Jeff. He's a lovely man. Just not my flavor. I don't like that maple flavor.

Scott Hicks [00:47:11]:
What is your flavor of man?

Lucas [00:47:16]:
Listen, listen. I see the way you look at Braxton.

David Roman [00:47:19]:
Listen, listen, listen, listen.

Lucas [00:47:20]:
I see the way you look at Braxton. And he's a little bougie for you.

David Roman [00:47:23]:
He's a little. A little bit more of a twinkle. I'm okay with that. I'm a little bit more okay with that. My preference of man goodness are trans men. That's my preference.

Scott Hicks [00:47:37]:
Okay.

David Roman [00:47:37]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:47:38]:
All right. That's okay.

David Roman [00:47:40]:
Pre surgery.

Scott Hicks [00:47:41]:
Pre surgery, I was like, thank God he said that.

Lucas [00:47:46]:
Because I was like, whoa.

David Roman [00:47:49]:
Well, even post surgery, I don't know that the things, like, are the same. I just. I can't have that thing coming at me like. Like, no, no, I'll pass.

Lucas [00:48:02]:
That's why you like Braxton so much. There's nothing to come at you.

David Roman [00:48:06]:
I don't know.

Scott Hicks [00:48:07]:
Oh, my God.

David Roman [00:48:08]:
I don't know. But, you know somebody twinkier than Jeff. Jeff is too Canadian.

Lucas [00:48:15]:
A little too bullish for you.

David Roman [00:48:18]:
And Brian Pollock is too bullish for me. That's a big boy. I'm talking like, he's too. He's too Canadian. I don't know. He looks like he's from Canada. Like, you look at a sea of people, you know that guy's from Canada. You can just tell.

Lucas [00:48:33]:
Can you.

David Roman [00:48:34]:
Can you tell?

Lucas [00:48:36]:
I can.

David Roman [00:48:36]:
I haven't thought about it.

Scott Hicks [00:48:39]:
I'm rooming with a Canadian. I have.

Lucas [00:48:43]:
Wait a minute. Who are you rooming with?

Scott Hicks [00:48:45]:
Sean Hill.

Lucas [00:48:46]:
Do I know Sean?

David Roman [00:48:48]:
Does he look like Jeff?

Scott Hicks [00:48:49]:
No. He's been coming to all this stuff longer than I have.

David Roman [00:48:54]:
Maybe I just don't know enough Canadians. I just assume they all look like Jeff Compton.

Lucas [00:48:59]:
Jeff Compton lives in one of the most beautiful places in Canada.

David Roman [00:49:03]:
Really?

Lucas [00:49:03]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:49:03]:
That's Sean.

Lucas [00:49:05]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know Sean Hill. Yeah. I don't, like. I don't think we've ever, like.

David Roman [00:49:08]:
I mean, growth. Have him grow a beard, look just like Jeff Compton.

Lucas [00:49:12]:
Hey, look, there's Justin Morgan. Does he look like a Canadian?

David Roman [00:49:15]:
No. No, he doesn't.

Scott Hicks [00:49:17]:
Justin's one of my favorite people.

Lucas [00:49:19]:
Smart kid. I mean, he's older than me, but still.

David Roman [00:49:23]:
Is he?

Lucas [00:49:24]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:49:25]:
I would not have guessed that. I would have figured him to be maybe 31.

Lucas [00:49:31]:
He's older than me.

David Roman [00:49:32]:
I look at you and think, yeah, he and I are 42.

Lucas [00:49:36]:
What?

David Roman [00:49:37]:
I.

Lucas [00:49:37]:
You know, he's not.

Scott Hicks [00:49:40]:
I don't know how old he is.

Lucas [00:49:41]:
You know, look, the last time I saw Scott, though, I gotta say this. I'm not saying. I'm not being mean. Okay? Don't take me as being mean. If David was saying it, then you might consider it being mean. It's a good look on you, but I'm seeing some, like, gray.

Scott Hicks [00:49:57]:
Oh, yeah, it's.

Lucas [00:49:58]:
Yeah, it's starting to work in here.

Scott Hicks [00:50:00]:
Oh, yeah, it's mostly gray.

David Roman [00:50:02]:
What are you talking about?

Lucas [00:50:03]:
Well, I know, but it wasn't like that.

David Roman [00:50:05]:
Just really.

Scott Hicks [00:50:06]:
Maybe my kids will do to you.

Lucas [00:50:07]:
Maybe a year ago, right? Am I. Am I right? Like, it wasn't. It wasn't gray a year ago.

Scott Hicks [00:50:13]:
You live with it, so you don't really notice. Like, the. Like you're noticing. It's like. I've had grays for a long time.

Lucas [00:50:20]:
But yeah, it's like, filled in now.

David Roman [00:50:22]:
Yeah, it's the ball hair that catches you off. You don't have that yet. What? You got one. One ball hair that's white and you're like, what the hell is that? You pull on it and you're like, huh?

Scott Hicks [00:50:35]:
That's attached.

David Roman [00:50:37]:
Or the nose hair. The white nose hairs. Those are fun.

Lucas [00:50:40]:
I. Justin Allen.

David Roman [00:50:41]:
Have you gotten that yet?

Lucas [00:50:42]:
Oh, yeah. Justin Allen is like, up in arms about the fact that I said every human being should have their nose waxed. I don't understand why that bothers him so much.

David Roman [00:50:52]:
It's weird. Guess it's weird.

Lucas [00:50:54]:
Dude, it is best feeling in the world.

Scott Hicks [00:50:56]:
No, it sounds very bougie.

Lucas [00:50:57]:
Yeah, no, it is not. It feels amazing.

Scott Hicks [00:51:00]:
I've seen the videos. It's painful to some people for sure.

Lucas [00:51:04]:
Dude. I. I mean, I'm the guy. I'm the guy who, like, I get a cut and I like to spray break cleaner in it. So, I mean, I get it. Like, I get it.

David Roman [00:51:10]:
What? Why?

Scott Hicks [00:51:11]:
I go straight for alcohol.

Lucas [00:51:12]:
I like the. Yeah, yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:51:14]:
Pure alcohol. 90 at least.

Lucas [00:51:17]:
I like. I like. I like, take my finger and like, push it open to where I can get it down in there. That burn. I just. I like the sting. Makes me feel alive. I guess.

Scott Hicks [00:51:27]:
I don't necessarily like the sting. I just don't like getting. That is deranged.

Lucas [00:51:33]:
Why?

David Roman [00:51:34]:
It's weird.

Lucas [00:51:35]:
It's sting. You don't like to, like, burn?

David Roman [00:51:37]:
No, I mean, I don't avoid it. It's. If you have to do it, you're like, it's whatever.

Lucas [00:51:42]:
I don't like it when my eyes burn, but I mean, otherwise, like, cuts and stuff like that. That burn.

Scott Hicks [00:51:46]:
I mean, I do use, like, pure alcohol for, like, after I shave.

Lucas [00:51:49]:
Yeah, dude. Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:51:50]:
Like a shaving. Like a aftershave. Or whatever.

Lucas [00:51:53]:
Invigorating.

Scott Hicks [00:51:54]:
I mean, but.

Lucas [00:51:56]:
But I'm telling you, until you wax your nose, you just don't understand. Like, you breathe so much better. It's not about pain. It's. I swear to God, it is a.

Scott Hicks [00:52:07]:
I got a deviated septum, so it's.

David Roman [00:52:08]:
Yeah, me too.

Lucas [00:52:09]:
You might. That ain't got Nothing to do with your deviated septum.

David Roman [00:52:15]:
I can't breathe through my nose.

Lucas [00:52:17]:
I didn't say anything. But you're a mouth breather for lots of other reasons.

David Roman [00:52:25]:
You know, nobody knew I had a deviated septum. And at my shop, they just like, you walk around like this all day. And I was like, yeah, I can't breathe. Anyway, now there are smells coming up in the shop, and they're like, you don't smell that? No, it smells normal to me. It smells like Shotgun. Yeah.

Lucas [00:52:47]:
Have you seen those deals where they put that balloon in people's, like, nostrils and pump up their sinuses and it, like, pops and cracks and you hear, pull it out. It's pretty crazy. Yeah, I'll show you video.

David Roman [00:52:58]:
No, I'll pass.

Lucas [00:53:00]:
So, like, they take a really stiff balloon, they put it in the nasal passages, pump it up with an air pump.

David Roman [00:53:05]:
To do what?

Lucas [00:53:06]:
Like, pops the nasal passages open. Like, pushes the back place. Yeah, yeah. I can't do the balloon out of their mouth or out of their nose.

David Roman [00:53:14]:
They're like, oh, we're gonna snap your neck. No, it's great. No, it's great.

Scott Hicks [00:53:19]:
If you go regularly.

Lucas [00:53:20]:
The next couple worries me can be.

David Roman [00:53:22]:
Really painful because you're just one wrong tweak and I'll. He'll break my neck and be like, oh, sorry. It's like, okay, great, man.

Lucas [00:53:30]:
I. I just think that it's probably more risky for you because they probably hate you already.

David Roman [00:53:37]:
Why do you.

Scott Hicks [00:53:37]:
What are you dismissing second nature?

David Roman [00:53:39]:
Have you not watched People hate you? Have you not. Have you not watched the. The action movies? The guys just snapping necks? Just movie. I'm just assuming that's how it is.

Scott Hicks [00:53:51]:
It's not that easy.

Lucas [00:53:52]:
I hear they put these balloons in people's noses. This little balloon right here, and they, like, pop open there. See, I wouldn't.

David Roman [00:54:01]:
I.

Lucas [00:54:02]:
Well, I don't care what this guy has to say.

David Roman [00:54:13]:
I can't do it. I can't do it. Stop, stop, stop. So I had a lump in my throat, right? And the doctor goes, hey, I got a. I gotta check it out and see. Make sure you don't have. Make sure you. Stop, stop.

David Roman [00:54:28]:
Make sure you don't have something where.

Lucas [00:54:31]:
It blows up into her mouth. Look, watch this.

Scott Hicks [00:54:33]:
It'll go out and come out.

Lucas [00:54:34]:
Yeah, it comes out the mouth. Watch. And so, like, they come out of the mouth sometimes when they do them, like, it goes all the way through. Oh, see, look, look, look, look.

Scott Hicks [00:54:49]:
I ain't alive. I got a lot of the ones. It's Like, I think you were too far.

Lucas [00:55:02]:
I know, right? You.

Scott Hicks [00:55:03]:
You did too much.

Lucas [00:55:05]:
I. Dude, I'd puke all over them. Well, I mean, I guess wouldn't puke all over them because that balloon would be in my mouth.

David Roman [00:55:11]:
So anyway, the guy. The guy wants to check because I've got, like, this lump in my throat. And they're like, hey, we're going to. We're going to do a biopsy on it, make sure it's not. That's not a cancer. But we're gonna. We're also gonna do a scope, and we gotta go in through your nose. I'm like, okay, well, that was the worst experience.

David Roman [00:55:31]:
Like, hey, we're gonna shoot this stuff and numb you. Like, okay. Then they take this camera, and it's the size of a. Of this cord here. It's enormous. And then they just shove it in there.

Lucas [00:55:42]:
And the guy's like.

David Roman [00:55:44]:
He's like. He's moving it around. And the whole time I'm sitting in this chair with this thing shoved up in my nose and then down my throat, and I can feel the thing moving around, and I'm like, anyway, why would I subject myself to that?

Lucas [00:56:00]:
I'll never forget when George had the diverticulitis surgery. They had to put that tube down his stomach, where they irrigate the stomach to get it to start back. And they go through your nose, but they won't put you out for that. And so they put this, like, huge tube down his nose and like, ripped his. The back of his nose and, like, popped stuff in his throat going down, and it's like, in his esophagus. It was somebody.

David Roman [00:56:26]:
My daughter had an issue.

Lucas [00:56:27]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:56:28]:
Apprentice was doing that job.

Lucas [00:56:29]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:56:30]:
Well, these people. I mean, if you don't do it but once every five years or whatever, like, I can. I can understand. But still, at the same time, it's a horrible experience. My daughter had a blockage in her intestine, and she ate all these blackberries. She's walking around with this distended abdomen, and we're like, that doesn't look right. Like, we gotta take her to the hospital. She was 4 years old.

David Roman [00:56:49]:
She'd just eaten, like, a pound of blackberries. Anyway, the doctor's like, yeah, it looks like that's blocked. Anyway. We're gonna have to wait for that to pass. She should probably. We're gonna inject her with some fluids, and we're just gonna monitor her, but we're gonna have to stick this up her nose. And I watched her shoved it up her nose. And for years after that, like, we'd have to check.

David Roman [00:57:13]:
It's like, hey, did you poop today? No. Like, well, you need to go. No, I don't. I don't want to go. It's like, you want the. You want the tuba back up your nose? No, I'll go. It's like, okay. Awful.

David Roman [00:57:28]:
And these people are paying for that. It's like, hey, are you into it?

Lucas [00:57:34]:
I have no problem waxing my nose. I enjoy that, but I'm not.

David Roman [00:57:39]:
What if it was a dude waxing your nose?

Lucas [00:57:42]:
Okay.

David Roman [00:57:43]:
Jeff Compton.

Lucas [00:57:43]:
Like, dude, I wax my own paws.

Scott Hicks [00:57:46]:
It's like saying, you know, you're gonna get a massage. I don't want. Like, I'm completely okay with a guy. I would rather have a guy, because I want somebody who can actually do a massage. I don't need somebody dangerous who knows.

Lucas [00:57:57]:
How to properly caress the spot. That's right. That's right.

David Roman [00:58:02]:
He wants those man meats on him. Just into the machines, you know, they have machines. You don't have to have a human, like, hey, what? Why? What do you mean?

Scott Hicks [00:58:13]:
Not the same, really. I mean. So I was going through physical therapy for my shoulder and stuff, and I was getting neuromuscular massages, which is. It's actually not comfortable at all. What's happening. It's pretty uncomfortable.

David Roman [00:58:27]:
Is it like, electrodes or whatever? And they're, like, shocking.

Scott Hicks [00:58:29]:
You find spots where you're in really bad.

Lucas [00:58:31]:
Just push as hard as they can. Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:58:33]:
And then they'll find either that spot or a spot they know that is, like, linked to it. And then it's a lot of just really deep pressure. And then you hold us for as. Either as long as you can or until it releases, and you're like, oh, my God.

Lucas [00:58:44]:
It just releases knots and stuff.

Scott Hicks [00:58:45]:
You can't.

Lucas [00:58:46]:
I've talked about that a lot. Is that. That, like, when. Because it's immense pain, and then all of a sudden, you feel like they're not pushing anymore. But they didn't change. They didn't let the pressure up. And that. That was eye opening to me, especially with the back pain.

Lucas [00:58:59]:
And, like. Because, you know, like, it stiffens up here in the top of my back. Those foam ro were, like, life changing for me because I'd go for weeks and not be able to walk. And the foam roller. And getting into that spot where I can find the thing that hurts the most and just lay on it. It'll eventually pop and let go, and then I'm fine again. I mean, I'M telling you, that is. I.

Lucas [00:59:18]:
But. But now I could understand, like, somebody who doesn't like pain. Now when I get into my lower back, like into the spine, when it's below the muscles up top, dude, it. That is a miserable feeling right there. That is.

Scott Hicks [00:59:30]:
That's lower back sucks. I mean, this up here, all of this hurts, but you can live with that. The lower stuff, that's debilitating.

Lucas [00:59:39]:
Yeah.

Scott Hicks [00:59:42]:
Okay.