Changing The Industry Podcast

Ryan Ragan [00:00:01]:
Oh, my goodness.

David Roman [00:00:02]:
Hold on, hold on. Are we recording?

Lucas Underwood [00:00:10]:
We're recording.

Ryan Ragan [00:00:12]:
All right.

Lucas Underwood [00:00:15]:
Are you happy now? I mean, you're never happy, but are you happier than you are?

David Roman [00:00:18]:
There was audio of P. Diddy and Meek Mills going at it on the Internet.

Lucas Underwood [00:00:23]:
Did you listen?

David Roman [00:00:24]:
I only made it maybe four seconds in, and it was. It's gruesome. It's not good. It's not good.

Lucas Underwood [00:00:30]:
Why would you listen to that?

David Roman [00:00:32]:
Yeah, I was, you know, morbid curiosity popped up on my Twitter feed or X feed, whatever.

Ryan Ragan [00:00:36]:
What are you. What are you following? Because that's kind of.

David Roman [00:00:39]:
This was news.

Ryan Ragan [00:00:40]:
Yeah, news.

Lucas Underwood [00:00:41]:
I like him.

Ryan Ragan [00:00:43]:
I'm just saying, you're going to call the therapist, say, forget about mama. We got a whole new bag of stuff to talk about. That's how that's going to go.

David Roman [00:00:52]:
David, Daddy issues that you. Everybody has Daddy P. Diddy issues. P. Diddy issues.

Lucas Underwood [00:00:58]:
You know, I never. I'm gonna keep my mouth shut.

David Roman [00:01:03]:
What's that? Everybody knew. Everybody knew. Now, all the clips from, like, back in the 90s, late 90s, him making reference to the. To his crazy parties and stuff like that, and it was always there. It was out in the open.

Lucas Underwood [00:01:18]:
I was just saying that you were going to get a therapist. And I'm just thinking, man, that poor therapist, like, they'd quit so fast.

Ryan Ragan [00:01:26]:
I don't know, they might publish a few papers before they need to publish.

Lucas Underwood [00:01:31]:
A few papers on this.

David Roman [00:01:32]:
I'm not big on therapy. I'm just. I don't know.

Lucas Underwood [00:01:35]:
What don't you like about it?

David Roman [00:01:37]:
I don't know. I just. I don't. I went to a therapist when I was a kid.

Ryan Ragan [00:01:43]:
Another piece of the puzzle.

David Roman [00:01:45]:
And kids went, and parents are getting divorced, and I was acting out a little bit, and they're like, oh, you need to go talk to somebody. And I would go. And once a week, it got me out of school, so I'm like, yeah, I'll go.

Ryan Ragan [00:01:58]:
Yeah. So by acting out, do you mean, like, burning down the school, or was it.

Lucas Underwood [00:02:02]:
No. Like, you didn't take anybody out, did you?

David Roman [00:02:05]:
No.

Lucas Underwood [00:02:05]:
Anything we need to know about?

David Roman [00:02:07]:
No.

Ryan Ragan [00:02:07]:
No.

Lucas Underwood [00:02:07]:
Are you a threat to the podcast?

David Roman [00:02:11]:
But the guy just sat there and, you know, he's asking questions. What are we. What are we doing here? This is a waste of time.

Ryan Ragan [00:02:18]:
They show you ink blots. Like, what do you.

David Roman [00:02:20]:
No, we didn't. We didn't get down that rabbit hole.

Ryan Ragan [00:02:22]:
Scout in a hatchet, in a box of cookies.

David Roman [00:02:23]:
This was a therapist.

Ryan Ragan [00:02:26]:
I don't know. You know, something just saying I don't know what's going on over there, so. Well, that one.

Lucas Underwood [00:02:36]:
That took a dark turn there, boys, I'll tell you what. Did you know? Did you know. You can tell he's from the South. He loves Duke's mayonnaise.

Ryan Ragan [00:02:45]:
Yeah. Yep.

David Roman [00:02:46]:
What's the difference between Dukes and Dukes.

Lucas Underwood [00:02:49]:
And Hellman's is okay, as long as it ain't craft like Mike Allen.

Ryan Ragan [00:02:52]:
Craft crafts pretty rough. Yeah, it's pretty rough.

Lucas Underwood [00:02:55]:
Now, he did. He did almost get kicked out of the state, turns out.

Ryan Ragan [00:02:59]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:02:59]:
Turns out he went into a grocery store, bought pickles, and it wasn't Mount Olive, and so that's just a no. No.

David Roman [00:03:04]:
Pickles are the worst.

Ryan Ragan [00:03:05]:
I got some scathing looks for the Vlasic, I'm not gonna lie.

David Roman [00:03:08]:
Yeah, classics are fun.

Ryan Ragan [00:03:10]:
Superior.

David Roman [00:03:10]:
They're crunchy.

Lucas Underwood [00:03:11]:
In North Carolina, you get Mount Olive pickles if you don't want to get. It's kind of like. It's kind of like going to a Pats game and cheering for the other team. I mean, that's just.

Ryan Ragan [00:03:19]:
Well, I could understand that.

Lucas Underwood [00:03:20]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:03:20]:
I mean.

Lucas Underwood [00:03:21]:
I mean, who wouldn't?

Ryan Ragan [00:03:21]:
I can. I can get that.

Lucas Underwood [00:03:23]:
You know, we talked about the fact that you thought Cam Newton wasn't a douchebag.

Ryan Ragan [00:03:27]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:03:28]:
And he agrees with me.

Ryan Ragan [00:03:30]:
The clip of him talking to the owner and him chiming in about being liquid and the owner, like, you see the. My name on that building at Duke, that's liquid. I enjoyed watching him get put in his play.

David Roman [00:03:44]:
I didn't see that clip.

Ryan Ragan [00:03:45]:
Yeah, it's a pretty good clip.

David Roman [00:03:47]:
I mean, you know, I'll look it up.

Ryan Ragan [00:03:49]:
It's right after the Tom Brady clip. I'm just kidding.

Lucas Underwood [00:03:53]:
Well, I mean, you know, the. I did watch the Pats game the other night. Right. I've never.

David Roman [00:03:58]:
Why?

Lucas Underwood [00:03:58]:
I've never cared about the past.

Ryan Ragan [00:04:00]:
Oh, no.

Lucas Underwood [00:04:00]:
I've never remotely, like, enjoyed them. There's always been an attitude. There's always been, you know, this thing. But now that David loves them so much and they're performing so terribly, I have no issues watching a whole game, right. Just watching.

David Roman [00:04:18]:
I made it through the first half, and you knew things were not going well. Aaron Rodgers was playing extremely well.

Lucas Underwood [00:04:24]:
He was. I will give him credit.

Ryan Ragan [00:04:25]:
He was on money.

David Roman [00:04:26]:
The. The. Off the defense. Our defense is really good. Inferno. Whatever reason, our two best defensive linemen decided we're not going to play any contain. We're just screw it. And lo and behold, every single time, Rogers would roll out, extend the play for another two seconds, and they hit a Big pass.

David Roman [00:04:48]:
It was happened over and over and over and it was two players in particular. They just weren't playing contain. They were just rushing up. They weren't, they weren't containing the pocket and the guy would roll out.

Lucas Underwood [00:05:00]:
I was impressed by Rogers. I feel like he kind of made a comeback here. He had not been playing that well.

Ryan Ragan [00:05:05]:
It was odd to me that they had to play contain on a 40 year old man coming off an Achilles.

David Roman [00:05:11]:
Anybody that can move.

Ryan Ragan [00:05:12]:
I didn't think he could move that well, to be honest.

David Roman [00:05:14]:
I've never seen him play.

Ryan Ragan [00:05:15]:
Yeah, but now, I mean he's 40. He's got that Keeley saying. I was kind of surprised that he rolled out and moved around like that.

David Roman [00:05:20]:
Yeah, he's always been able to do that. He's always been mobile enough. It's not like a Kirk Cousins that the guy's going to sit in the pocket. He might choke a little bit, but the guy's going to sit in the pocket and either the pass is there or it's not. He'll hit the pass but it's got to be there and you can't put any pressure on him. He's not going to slide around. Tom Brady used to slide around in that pocket and he used to slide up, slide down, left, right, whatever. He'd manipulate that pocket so he'd have enough time to make that pass.

David Roman [00:05:48]:
Kirk Cousins doesn't do that. So in his case, maybe you don't play contained before reason. I think those two defensive linemen thought this is a 40 year old.

Lucas Underwood [00:05:58]:
Achilles.

David Roman [00:05:59]:
And they were just, they were going for broke every play. And I don't know why, I mean you, maybe you get into the mud or whatever, but they're seeing, they're, they have every, they're watching every play and so like, hey, why aren't you guys playing contain? Like why are you. This is your assignment here. You rush up here but you have to contain. And they weren't doing it. They didn't make any adjustments. They got blown out.

Ryan Ragan [00:06:22]:
And that was Brady. When Brady couldn't step up, it affected his whole game. Anytime he couldn't step up in the pocket.

David Roman [00:06:27]:
Yeah, that, that was the, that was the formula for the two New York Giants losses in the super bowl is pressure up the middle. That's all that, that they had to put pressure up the middle.

Lucas Underwood [00:06:36]:
I'll tell you one thing about Aaron Rodgers though. That dude has got a arm on.

Ryan Ragan [00:06:39]:
Him for an old dude.

Lucas Underwood [00:06:40]:
He always had an arm. I mean I remember back when he was still, um, there Were like three Hail Marys that, I mean, he laid back and threw it and everybody was watching it saying, there's no way. There's no way.

David Roman [00:06:54]:
I don't know anybody who watched him at all ever as a Packer and not think that that guy can't make that throw.

Ryan Ragan [00:07:00]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:07:00]:
If you're, if you want, hey, I need this guy to get me 80 yards in 40 seconds. That's the guy you pick. Yeah, I love Tom Brady to death, but I'm going to pick Aaron Rodgers. That's the guy you want for 40 seconds. 80 yards. Go. That's him.

Ryan Ragan [00:07:14]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:07:14]:
100 for sure.

Ryan Ragan [00:07:15]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:07:16]:
And there's enough, there's enough advancement in sports science. I don't know why anybody thinks 40 year old can't play in the NBA.

Ryan Ragan [00:07:23]:
It's a different game. I mean, the medicine is completely different today and the surgeries are different. Everything is different, you know. So, yeah, the game is not as.

David Roman [00:07:31]:
Physical as it used to be.

Ryan Ragan [00:07:32]:
Now they can't touch them the way they used to.

David Roman [00:07:34]:
I mean, you watch clips from like 12 years ago, just 12 years ago, and they're taking people's heads off.

Ryan Ragan [00:07:40]:
What was a clip they showed of Bradshaw and the Raiders? He threw the pass like three seconds later, the guy comes up behind him, picks him up, slams him on his head, knocks him unconscious. And he said that would need my flag.

Lucas Underwood [00:07:49]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, and maybe they've, I don't want to say that they've sissified football a little bit.

David Roman [00:07:59]:
Well, at the same time they're like, they don't want the players to get cte. That's what it is.

Ryan Ragan [00:08:03]:
And they want money. They want the best product on the field. They want it. They want to see the best players playing. And you know, for sure it makes sense. You know, if you lose Brady, it's like, well, there goes the, you know, nobody's turning on the tv. Yeah, that's true, that's true.

David Roman [00:08:15]:
They have Patrick Mahomes now.

Ryan Ragan [00:08:17]:
Well, Mahomes is. I'm a chief guy, so, I mean, but we went through our rough years and it's good to be on top.

Lucas Underwood [00:08:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Poor, poor David here. He. He's. He's. He's got a salvage title vehicle because the Chiefs won the Super Bowl.

Ryan Ragan [00:08:32]:
Nice. Nice. Are you a Red Sox fan, too? It was bad enough when they started being successful and then, then the Patriots, and then it's all, you heard, New England, New England. I'm like, o.

David Roman [00:08:42]:
It was the Patriots. I mean, honestly, it was, It's Been the Celtics forever.

Ryan Ragan [00:08:47]:
True, true.

David Roman [00:08:47]:
And then the Patriots in the early 2000s. The Red Sox did not get on board for a while, and they went in 2004, 2007, 13, 18.

Ryan Ragan [00:08:58]:
I used to go to a lot of Yankees, Red Sox games, and they were just great sitting in the stands. It was truly joyful. It's truly joyful.

David Roman [00:09:06]:
New York is the worst.

Ryan Ragan [00:09:08]:
It was a great time, though, to just sit and listen. You're just like, this is great.

David Roman [00:09:12]:
Yeah, it is. It gets rowdy. Anyway, introduce our guest, Ron Reagan.

Lucas Underwood [00:09:16]:
Thank you for being on the show.

Ryan Ragan [00:09:18]:
It's my pleasure.

Lucas Underwood [00:09:19]:
You officially have to put up with us now.

Ryan Ragan [00:09:22]:
Well, I put up with Lucas.

Lucas Underwood [00:09:24]:
Yeah, no, he puts up with you by extension of putting up with me.

David Roman [00:09:28]:
Maybe. I don't know.

Lucas Underwood [00:09:30]:
You were the new executive director for the automotive service. Entire alliance in North Carolina.

Ryan Ragan [00:09:36]:
I am.

Lucas Underwood [00:09:38]:
Tell me how we got here, because we. This. This search. There was a lot of effort that went into this. And look, I'm not trying to make your head swell up, and I'm not trying to, but. But I mean, seriously, like, this was the most effort I've ever seen any organization put into finding the right person.

Ryan Ragan [00:09:59]:
Yeah. You know, for me, my end was kind of easy, to be honest. It was a timing thing for me. I saw the position open, and then I'm not a person that, you know, just dives in. I did my research. I pulled, you know, fine. I pulled financial, Looked at websites, looked at marketing, look at events, saw some things that I liked, saw things, Some areas of opportunity. But I've always been a person, you know, I've been in different industries.

Ryan Ragan [00:10:28]:
I'm always in nonprofits or associations, but different industries. And I've always been somebody that likes to build something. I kind of like the challenge of it. And I thought, you know what, my wife and I were talking about it like this. This is where I'm supposed to be. Yeah. And so went after it.

Lucas Underwood [00:10:42]:
That is so cool. So where were you previously? You don't have to share the names if you don't want to, but what were you doing before?

Ryan Ragan [00:10:47]:
You know, I was working for an international trade association. A lot of stuff overseas, A lot of stuff domestic, very large, large corporate, international client, you know, members. Yeah. You know, prior to that, I worked in healthcare accreditation, both domestically and internationally. Accreditation for everything you could possibly imagine, from, you know, hospital systems to home health, pharmaceuticals, you know, renal dialysis, you know, everything. Launched some. Some pharmacy stuff in Italy and Australia before that. Geez.

Ryan Ragan [00:11:18]:
I was in biomedical world for a long Time I worked with the Red Cross, I was chief operating officer in New Jersey blood centers for years. You know, ran Florida, Georgia, South Carolina as director of donor resources. So, you know, I've been around the block always, always building and, you know, getting recruitment or members or doing driving business. Growing revenue. Right, right.

Lucas Underwood [00:11:38]:
When you look at asta, I'm really curious because there's. There's few associations left in the automotive space. Right. And there's some talk of associations are dying left and right. And we've seen some of that. We've got some friends who have associations are dying. I'm the vice president of one that we just sunset. Right.

Lucas Underwood [00:12:00]:
That it was time to not do this. And there are a couple of reasons for it. One being that that the older board members looked at us, two younger board members and said, if we're going to keep doing this, you guys are going to have to be the one to take it and run with it. So we both said, hey, we've got businesses, we've got lives, we've got all this going on. We don't have the time to do this. Right. We don't have the time to take this and make it into something. The other side of it is, is that there's.

Lucas Underwood [00:12:26]:
There's a lot of consolidation happening now. Primarily it's in collision.

Ryan Ragan [00:12:30]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:12:30]:
But there is consolidation happening in automotive mechanical repairs. And so what do you see the future of associations being? Do you think that's a threat and how do you figure that we turn that corner to keep it either at bay or create. You know, like in our shops, we say we're a boutique shop or we're a specialty shop. We do something that nobody else does. What's your vision for that?

Ryan Ragan [00:12:55]:
You know, for me, associations, I think, are always going to be around. I think it's kind of like in automotive. I mean, if. If you're not doing the, you know, the TPIs and the things and tracking your social media and responding to things and, you know, customer experience and all that, your shop's probably going to fall to the wayside and the good shops are going to step off and the overall industry will get better. It's the same way with associations. Right. You know, if you're not out putting the effort in and you're not striving to be something that's more than just a discount to attend a show or a discount for this, you're probably going to fall to the wayside.

David Roman [00:13:28]:
Right.

Ryan Ragan [00:13:28]:
And it's a lot of work. You have to do things on a daily Basis that add value to members, you know, and not just perceived value, but real value. Yeah. I think, you know, we are sitting in a great position, you know, as asda, I think when you look at the industry, you know, as a whole and you think, you know, training is a big aspect that kind of sends ripple effects through the industry or lack of training. And we're doing a lot of that here and I love it. It's cutting edge. We got people from Canada, from New York, from, you know, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and they're all here in North Carolina because we're providing something. They' getting where they're at.

Ryan Ragan [00:14:03]:
Right. So that's a direct reflection of associations and organizations in those states. And so I'm proud to have them here. I think, you know, we are going to continue to strive to do that. I'm looking to be a one stop shop for my members with member content, on demand learning, on demand onboarding for small shops to help them. Have people go through osha, through different things to learn these things. You're a member, log in, slap a new hire down and go, he'll be ready. We've got, you know, library of contents you can use.

Ryan Ragan [00:14:32]:
And then, you know, we have to continue to evolve. I want to ramp the tire side of the business back up. Yeah, you know, I want them more represented here. I want more training and more classes for them. So I'm looking to do that. But I think associations are going to be around. I just think it's going to be the better associations that stand the test, survive.

Lucas Underwood [00:14:50]:
So, you know, I think it's a good conversation to have with David because David has kind of seen a situation where an association kind of lost focus on its core membership. And what would you say to him? What would you want from an association, David? Because you've had some complaints about associations and saying they're not providing the value, they're not bringing anything to the table. If you're talking to Ryan, who's the new executive director of this association, what would you say to him? What would you want from an association in your town?

David Roman [00:15:24]:
I think he said it can't be just discounts.

Ryan Ragan [00:15:27]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:15:28]:
I mean that becomes irrelevant, especially when you can get the discounts somewhere else and maybe sometimes better discounts if the association's not providing anything. I like the on demand learning thing, that's a good idea. But also exclusive classes that you cannot get anywhere else. You take some, like the institute creates content specifically for the association, tailored to what the members need. Does that make sense?

Lucas Underwood [00:15:56]:
Yeah, of course.

David Roman [00:15:58]:
And what are you going to do like that? Now that becomes very exclusive. How are you going to get that content? It's going to provide you value. You have to join the association. It's like, okay, well now that makes sense. I've got a reason to join the association. I'm going to be able to get into. Into that or get, get access to that content and then even small coaching groups at a deeply discounted rate as maybe a stepping stone. I mean, they tried to do that with asog, the mastermind group, but you know, that's still shop owners trying to help for freezies.

David Roman [00:16:37]:
That's not the same thing as somebody that does it for a profession, as a profession. So giving them the opportunity to get access to a coach to help them out on an individual basis through the association, I mean, that becomes invaluable. And then at that point there's no reason not to join.

Ryan Ragan [00:16:53]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:16:53]:
Just so at the very least that you get access to somebody that you can talk to and you get the onboarding and you get the LMS and you get exclusive training that you can't get anywhere else that isn't accessible to anybody else. Maybe it's virtual, maybe it's once. Whatever happens to me, I don't know what that would look like exactly. But then now you've got a reason to join. But it seems to be that it just ends up being discounts and then the occasional training class. And then. And then they're negotiating how cheap they can get out of the training class because it's got to be a profit center for them. And then it turns into a thing.

Lucas Underwood [00:17:31]:
And you know what I heard you talk about that you went through was that it seemed like the focus for the association went different directions when the baby at home wasn't taken care of. Is that.

David Roman [00:17:45]:
Yeah, but I don't know. That was. I think that was a unique situation because growth became the primary focus. Yeah, we're gonna grow. We're gonna blow this up. We're gonna be everywhere. And that's fine.

Lucas Underwood [00:17:59]:
I don't envy your position for the simple fact, like you've got a group of some of the most passionate people I've ever met about automotive.

Ryan Ragan [00:18:09]:
Very much so. Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:18:10]:
That's on that board of directors, right?

Ryan Ragan [00:18:11]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:18:12]:
And you've got a Mike Allen who's hardcore driven.

Ryan Ragan [00:18:15]:
Yep.

Lucas Underwood [00:18:15]:
Right. You've got an Emby who is focused on doing this Right. And I really appreciate that about her because like, Mike and I are big visionaries and we have these great big ideas and we have this thing that we want to do. She's like, hey, guys, let's talk about how this really works.

Ryan Ragan [00:18:33]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:18:34]:
Let's back this down a little bit and put it in a box.

Ryan Ragan [00:18:36]:
It's good to have, though.

Lucas Underwood [00:18:37]:
It is, it is. And so, like, the entire board of directors is extremely diverse. And when Mike became president, that's one of the things that we talked about.

Ryan Ragan [00:18:45]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:18:45]:
Is how do we build a diverse board of directors that thinks outside the box, that thinks big, that thinks visionary, but also is able to implement and take it and run with it. Now, up to this point, and I'm not trying to spill our whole dirty laundry, but I'm going to. Up to this point, it's really been 100% dependent on the board. And then we worked with the staff, and we would give them information or direction or give them details about where we were going from here. But there wasn't like a, you know, in my shop. Okay, well, I'm the owner, and until I have a manager, everybody comes to me.

Ryan Ragan [00:19:24]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:19:25]:
And then they go to the service advisor, and service advisor comes to me. Right. We've never had that type of organizational chart. We've never had that type of leadership. We tried to implement it, but it just wasn't there. And so when Chet comes in, Chet starts putting that in place, and he starts getting it devised and organized and moving. What are your thoughts as far as when you first come in? You've got a lot of stuff, a lot of energy to contain and take it and make it a force that goes and does something. Right.

Lucas Underwood [00:19:52]:
What's your first move when you look at something like that?

Ryan Ragan [00:19:55]:
You know, for me, it was just evaluating staff.

Lucas Underwood [00:19:58]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:19:59]:
I'm seeing where they're at. Pleasantly. Pleasantly surprised. I mean, you know, they're doing a fantastic job and trying to. You know, my job for the staff is pretty simple. Anywhere I've ever been in any organization, you know, everybody, you know, what's your management style? What you. You know, my job for the staff is to remove obstacles so they can do their job. Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:20:16]:
That's my job. I'm there to have and provide development for them in their roles, to give them a clear and defined role and let them understand how that role fits into the overall goal of what we're trying to achieve. Right. Making them work smarter and within themselves. I don't need you working 12 hours a day. I need you to do what you need to do in eight hours a day, and I'm going to help you get there.

Lucas Underwood [00:20:36]:
Right, Exactly.

Ryan Ragan [00:20:37]:
You know, That's a big thing was evaluating them first and then looking at what we need as an organization. You can't be all things to all people. Everything doesn't happen overnight. Obviously we have a Charlotte market that is not a mere reflection of the Raleigh market. Yeah, that needs to change. But again, that's windshield time. That's cold calling, that's grassroots knocking on doors that I'll be out doing. It's not going to happen overnight.

Ryan Ragan [00:21:01]:
Right. But we have to start that process somewhere. And it's a lot easier to lure them in when I'm bringing more to the table. Hey, here's an on demand learning. Here's a webinar series that's member only content. Here is our legislative goals for the next year. Here's our annual report from 2023. This is what we did.

Ryan Ragan [00:21:19]:
Here's what we focused on, here's our financials, here's what we're going to focus on in 2024. I love that and I'm a big over communicator. When you don't communicate, people will write the narrative themselves. And they're writing a narrative based off rumor, innuendo and you know, that's never a good, good recipe. Right, right. I'm big on that. And then, you know, you talk diversity and things. I want to see a youth movement.

Ryan Ragan [00:21:43]:
I've had several conversations lately about just stigmas and about the industry as a whole. I, you know, I find it humorous that you can go to a STEM school and you're a gifted child. Well, but a vocational school has the stigma and it's, it's an utter joke, you know, I, people add, you know, should I go to college? Well, sure. Nothing against college. Me personally, if you, you want to go to college, in four years you're going to graduate, you're going to be in debt, you're going to start the bottom rung of whatever, you know. Right.

Lucas Underwood [00:22:11]:
And may not even be able to find a dang job.

Ryan Ragan [00:22:14]:
Now you can go to the vocational type school if you would and in four years you're going to be making a livable wage and not be in.

Lucas Underwood [00:22:20]:
Debt and you can go to work.

Ryan Ragan [00:22:22]:
Right away, right away and all way you're not going to have a job if you're just lazy or an idiot because there's a constant demand. But I want to get more into the youth, you know, I want to get more females into the industry. I think that's great. When you get different, that perspective is just great. I've talked with several people because you know, the boy scouts and the girl scouts have merit badges. Yeah. You know, how do we get our member shops to involve with those, to get them in getting out to the high schools, talking to these folks, getting those apprenticeship programs built up. Yeah, that's the key.

Ryan Ragan [00:22:51]:
I mean, if you look at the industry as a whole, I think it's, you know, first, you know, brand new tax. It's, you know, after two years, 50% of them leave. You know, what's, what's the reasoning for that? And a lot of that could be management. A lot of could be lack of career path. And you use, you know, these in shops. It's hard to career path people tied. But I think the finance courses we got coming up are big for owners. We need, you know, I need to get in with, with coaches that say, hey, we have a brand new member and I'll strive to work to get deals with good coaching organizations.

Ryan Ragan [00:23:21]:
Say if you're a new member and you come on board, you get three coaching sessions, you know, here you go. This is part of your new member and this is what you do. Because you could be the best tech in the world. The absolute best. You might not be able to run a business at all.

Lucas Underwood [00:23:35]:
Amen.

Ryan Ragan [00:23:35]:
I know all about when I was in blood. The worst is probably a lot of people I know mad. But the worst people that ran blood banks were doctors. They were the absolute worst businessman I ever saw.

Lucas Underwood [00:23:48]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:23:49]:
They just did not grasp the concept of it. And that's great. I mean, how many bartenders? Oh, I was a bartender for 10 years, so I bought the bar. Well, it's bankruptcy. Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:23:58]:
You can be clinically sound and leadership deficient.

Ryan Ragan [00:24:01]:
Yeah. And that happens. And we need to help fill the void because, you know, you see people that have the drive and the determination and they just don't have the resources to kind of point them in this direction. Yeah, that's us.

Lucas Underwood [00:24:14]:
You look at, you look at this event. This is the first time ever to an automotive event, I guess, right?

Ryan Ragan [00:24:20]:
Pretty much, yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:24:21]:
What was your takeaway from this event?

Ryan Ragan [00:24:23]:
I was pleasantly surprised. I'll be quite honest. You know, I'd heard stories about the last one and it was a little rough and a little chaotic and, you know, we don't have a massive staff, you know, and thank God for the volunteers and the board that done fantastic job. So, you know, I wanted to see myself. Like I said, I officially don't start until the 7th.

Lucas Underwood [00:24:41]:
Right.

Ryan Ragan [00:24:41]:
But there's no way I couldn't be here. Yeah, for sure, for sure. I Wanted to see this. And, you know, we've, you know, Chet, the interim has done a fantastic job of keeping notes, and we're kind of creating the Bible, if you will, and it's a fluid document. And we're going to, you know, go back, we're going to debrief, and next week we start planning the next one. And so. But I've been pleasantly surprised. The people have probably been the biggest surprise.

Ryan Ragan [00:25:03]:
I've not met anybody here with a bad attitude, not willing to help, negative in any way. And, you know, everybody's been very welcoming. And the way that the conversations that I overhear in your passing is people helping each other, you know, it's very refreshing. Very refreshing.

Lucas Underwood [00:25:20]:
And I think that is the culture that this organization has. Right. And it's part of the culture that we're developing in the automotive industry as a whole. Right?

Ryan Ragan [00:25:29]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:25:29]:
And so when you look at what ASTA has done. Right. Because think about it like this. Where did the growth happen in ASTA when it was IGO and C. And then we moved in, morphed into ASTA when we merged with the nctda. Right. NC Tire Dealers Association. That growth came from a group of board members who really loved this thing.

Lucas Underwood [00:25:50]:
Right. And they saw that if we could all work together and if we could all come together and have a common goal, a common thing that we cared about, that we could make our industry better. Right. The name of the show is the Changing the Industry Podcast. Right. So much of what this show is wouldn't even have happened if it wasn't for IGONC and nctda. Right. And so it was for us going out and professing that we care about this thing and we love this thing, and it's important to us, and it's going to make a difference and it's going to make a change.

Ryan Ragan [00:26:21]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:26:21]:
Now, one of the things that we saw happen, though, is you can only ask a board member to do that for so long before you burn them out. If they're the only one doing it, if they're the people who are out there professing that and working to get the members in there, and then the staff or the association itself, the people that we have at the core aren't providing the value that we see. Right. Because we, you know, and look, the board is what makes the value at the end of the day.

Ryan Ragan [00:26:49]:
Sure.

Lucas Underwood [00:26:49]:
Right. To a degree. Now, it necessarily shouldn't be that way.

Ryan Ragan [00:26:52]:
Right.

Lucas Underwood [00:26:53]:
The staff should be making the programs and putting the things in place that make it valuable.

Ryan Ragan [00:26:57]:
Yeah. And it can happen that way. It can happen. Especially when you got a small staff and you kind of become. And maybe some leadership is lacking. You know, you can kind of become dependent, like, well, the board's gonna take care of that. They're gonna do this.

Lucas Underwood [00:27:11]:
That's exactly what happened.

Ryan Ragan [00:27:12]:
And that is not a road you want to go down. They have their own. Own businesses to run. They had. I'm the president of. I could care less. You know, I got my pull in, my flagpole up. I could care less.

Ryan Ragan [00:27:23]:
You know, and they're always like, can you make this? No, I can't make this. I have a life. I have other things that are higher priorities. And, you know, I'll, you know, if there's three of you, make a quorum. Go do what you got to do. And that's the thing is, you know, they all have other interests and businesses and lives and families. And, you know, we're getting paid to do something. So, you know, me coming in now is just going to be about.

Ryan Ragan [00:27:41]:
So let's reset our priorities and your job descriptions and what you're responsible for, and the board's not responsible for it. You know, now if we want to form a committee about youth engagement or something like that, we'll have those discussions. But, you know, their job is not to drive the operation of the business. That's my job.

Lucas Underwood [00:27:59]:
Yeah, they're to be the vision there, to be the perspective.

Ryan Ragan [00:28:04]:
That's it.

Lucas Underwood [00:28:05]:
And, you know, I think that was the thing, is that, you know, it really fell on Mike's shoulders in a lot of ways, right when he came, became president, him. Him and envy it was on their shoulders to take this and run with it. And so I'm excited to see a staff that can see the vision that they had for it and take it and run with it and really be the two halves. Right. As opposed to it being kind of biased in the scale, tipping in one direction. I think that'll be a big thing.

Ryan Ragan [00:28:34]:
I'm looking forward to it. I think, you know, again, it's a lot of direction in development. You know, I've got, like I said, a small staff, and they're doing some social media stuff, but they've never had any development in it. And the first day I met with them and when I was going through this process was I asked him, you know, what's the development budget? What do you mean? I'm like, well, you know, if you're going to be doing website stuff, you're going to be doing some social media every year. At NC State they have the, it's like the Internet, you know, giant meeting that they have over. It's like a three day event. They have Amazon people, people from all over the world and they teach you the best ways to do stuff and social media and how you do it. You're going to attend that if you're going to be running mine.

Ryan Ragan [00:29:11]:
And they're like. And I'm like, well, I need to develop you into what I want you to be and you know, how you can benefit us as an organization. And if nobody's using any money or time to develop you, that's not a good use of our time for sure. So, you know, I'm going to spend time developing the team and I want them to get out and become experts in the field that we need to develop us. That's really what it's going to be about for me.

Lucas Underwood [00:29:34]:
That's awesome. That's awesome. So attacking it from the low hanging.

Ryan Ragan [00:29:37]:
Fruit first right out there. I mean, you know, it's easy stuff, you know, easy targets and you know, like just bringing back tire folks. I mean how easy could that be if we just started engaging that more on that side. And yeah, I mean there's opportunities. I'm a big fan of social media to a point. But again, people do business with people they like. Yeah. And that's why it's windshield time.

Ryan Ragan [00:29:59]:
It's knocking on doors, it's shaking hands and you know, and knowing when to interrupt them and when not to.

Lucas Underwood [00:30:05]:
Well, you know, that's how we grew to this point.

Ryan Ragan [00:30:06]:
Yeah, right.

Lucas Underwood [00:30:07]:
We grew to this point by going out and what was it Mike said the other day? Shaking babies and kissing hands.

Ryan Ragan [00:30:13]:
Oh yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:30:13]:
You know, I mean that, that was how this got to where it is right now and it's how we got this group of people that come to this show from all over the country.

Ryan Ragan [00:30:20]:
Yeah, right.

Lucas Underwood [00:30:21]:
From all over multiple countries. What, what is the first low hanging fruit you're going to attack?

Ryan Ragan [00:30:27]:
I, you know, I'm probably going to spend most of my time in the, in the Charlotte market. But you know, I've talked some strategies with Mike and things about how to attack that market. I think it's there and it's not something that has really been done a lot on, you know, I mean, and so I'm really going to spend a lot of time in the Charlotte market on both automotive and tire side. I'm going to work at. I've had several conversations here with folks on the tire side about educational materials training. Materials training, you know, Having training segments here, I'm going to re, you know, we should be reviewing, you know, you remember, and you get discounts if you buy through this vendor, that we need to be reviewing those every year. Yeah. You know, renegotiating those if for sure.

Ryan Ragan [00:31:13]:
You know, we need. And you know how that's being done. You know, I need to see. So I need to keep going back and going back and maybe, hey, if this one isn't working and this one's going to give our members a better deal, then maybe we have to have that conversation. And so it's just business, it's never personal. So I'll be attacking those, but I'm really going to attack just being that, onboarding that educational provider, you know, for these. You know, hey, I need an on demand library. I need content, relevant content for these folks.

Ryan Ragan [00:31:41]:
And you know, that's what I think when people start seeing that as a member, like, hey, you sign up, you know, yeah, great, you get a discount this show. Let me tell you what else you get. You get access to member only content which consists of these training libraries. You're going to get these webinars, you're going to get this GR access to any of our legislation that we're tracking. You're going to get three free coaching sessions. You're going to get this. And when you start building that package and you put it in front of somebody, it makes, it makes a difference, you know, for sure. So, you know, we're going to start planning this for next year.

Ryan Ragan [00:32:09]:
We've had a lot of interest in, you know, our booths out here. Like can we get more than today? Can we do a two day, you know, and we'd pay more. Something to talk about. I'm open to anything. Let's sit down and do the numbers.

Lucas Underwood [00:32:20]:
I'm really excited about next year because we're going to the convention center.

Ryan Ragan [00:32:23]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:32:24]:
So I'm excited, but I'm also nervous about it because we know we have to grow. We capped this out for those that don't know the reason that this capped out in this event. And there were a lot of requests. I don't want to make it sound like it was just worldpac, but there were a lot of requests for tables. So during the training classes you could have tables. Well, if we put tables in these rooms and we had a table in every single training room, we would cut our capacity in half. Right. So we did the numbers and we're like, there's just no way you can do that.

Lucas Underwood [00:32:59]:
We just couldn't. The Event wouldn't even pay for itself. Right. So we navigated and World Pack requires that. And so when we go into the other facility, not only are we going to have an area where the trade show could in theory be open the entire time, not that we'd want to do that, but the trade show could be open much more. It could be a much bigger space. You could do way more cool stuff with the trade show space. And then you've got way more training rooms than what you had here.

Ryan Ragan [00:33:26]:
Yep.

Lucas Underwood [00:33:27]:
And they're bigger training rooms so we can put substantially more people in. And you know, just for my perspective to you, what made ASTA grow? There's two things that we always hear. The first is the southern hospitality that we have now. A lot of people say, nah, if it grows, you'll lose that. That won't be it. The people that come to this event, man, they want to be out here shaking hands and talking to people and networking and being part of this and gathering around the bar. And the board members are down here. Right.

Lucas Underwood [00:33:59]:
It's not just attendees. The people who make this happen are standing out here networking and talking with these people. I mean, I don't think Mike Allen slept this week. Right.

Ryan Ragan [00:34:09]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:34:10]:
And so there's that. The other big thing is we had the best training classes, wouldn't you agree? I think we had the very best training classes that have ever been offered at a training event like this. And those are the two things that have kept people coming back.

Ryan Ragan [00:34:25]:
Well, and you're 100% right. I think probably the one of the biggest things, and I used to tell people, I tell people this all the time, Your ego is the most expensive thing you own.

Lucas Underwood [00:34:33]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:34:33]:
And you want to go broke, follow it.

Lucas Underwood [00:34:35]:
Exactly.

Ryan Ragan [00:34:35]:
It'll do it. One thing I will tell you at this event, like you said, the board members, the people making this happen, they're just like an ordinary volunteer out here running around. They'll talk to anybody, they'll help anybody. There is no ego here for sure. And I think that is, you know, fantastic. And I mean I've met so many people. I was telling people earlier, I'm probably going to be a write in on in November. I might get elected.

Ryan Ragan [00:34:58]:
I'm not even sure but I mean I'm probably on the ballot now. But you know, it is, it's. You don't see that. I've been to trade shows all over the world. I mean we used to attend 70 some a year.

Lucas Underwood [00:35:10]:
Wow.

Ryan Ragan [00:35:11]:
And I mean I've been to some of the largest things you can imagine in Europe and think, it is not like that. It's, you know, ginormous boots and, you know, egos and money's on this side and, you know, peon people are down here. And if you can tell, it's completely divided and.

Lucas Underwood [00:35:26]:
Right.

Ryan Ragan [00:35:27]:
It's like that. Everybody is equal here for sure. And the way everybody does work here, like you talked about, the board, you know, they'll. It's like you say, it's amazing how much work can get done when nobody gives a damn who gets credit.

Lucas Underwood [00:35:38]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:35:39]:
And that's where we're at. You know, everybody's just pulling together and we're kind of whatever, that's it. Next man up, you know, and that's what it is. And that is something that you don't find everywhere else. Yeah. So I think, you know, we keep that attitude as we move forward, and you let me do what I'm supposed to do and get out and beat the payment and build programs and packages. I talked today about having, you know, next year maybe we have a. An owner for them to where, you know, the folks that we have, you know, the insurance groups, all the people we have programs with.

Ryan Ragan [00:36:10]:
Are you taking advantage of these? You know, you sit down and have a lunch and let these folks come up and tell you what. What their programs are. And are you taking advantage of these?

Lucas Underwood [00:36:17]:
Yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, that was one of the things we kept dealing with is we found out that our members weren't using the programs.

Ryan Ragan [00:36:24]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:36:24]:
They didn't know they were there. They didn't know what to do with them when they got them.

Ryan Ragan [00:36:27]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:36:28]:
And so I think. I think it's important for folks to realize. On top of that, when we talk about programs, let's say that you're talking about an insurance company, right?

Ryan Ragan [00:36:38]:
Sure.

Lucas Underwood [00:36:38]:
Some of what makes ASTA Expo happen is the revenue from insurance programs or from their partners. Right. Because not only do they sponsor the show, but sometimes you get a better price on your insurance, but part of that, you might get a quarter of a percent or a percent or whatever it is paid to the association.

Ryan Ragan [00:36:57]:
Yep.

Lucas Underwood [00:36:58]:
Which helps pay the association's bills, which then the association can pay back to you, give back to you through training, events and the things that they offer.

Ryan Ragan [00:37:06]:
Right.

Lucas Underwood [00:37:06]:
So the more members it has and the more people who are bought into it and investing into it, the better it can be.

Ryan Ragan [00:37:12]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:37:12]:
And so that was my. You know, we had that panel yesterday with Jeff, and I was saying, not only did this association change my life, but it changed his Life. And it changed the lives of the people around me because I became involved with it. And so I made my life better, and it made my family's life better.

Ryan Ragan [00:37:27]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Lucas Underwood [00:37:29]:
And so I implore anybody who's listening, even if you're not local, for God's sakes, get on the website and join.

Ryan Ragan [00:37:36]:
Yeah, I'm gonna revamp that, too. So that's another.

Lucas Underwood [00:37:38]:
Yeah, I know.

Ryan Ragan [00:37:39]:
That's a whole other thing.

Lucas Underwood [00:37:41]:
But, you know, you can join anywhere. You can be a member of the association. And the cool thing is, even if you're not here, like those that attend asta, it saves you a chunk of money to come to asta.

Ryan Ragan [00:37:52]:
It does. And like I said, we have so many people from out of state here. I mean, we couldn't have this event away from an airport. We have too many people flying in. So there is value here. And I'm with you. I think, you know, those programs, it frustrates me when members aren't taking advantage of things, because you're going to get out of this membership exactly what you put in it, because I'm going to give you everything I can give you. AST is going to throw everything we can throw at you.

Ryan Ragan [00:38:16]:
We're going to constantly keep reevaluating and offering new things. Take advantage of it. It's there. You remember, this is for you.

Lucas Underwood [00:38:23]:
Exactly.

Ryan Ragan [00:38:24]:
And it's just frustrating when you see that. And so I do a lot of surveys. You know, I'm a. Like I said, I'm a big communicator, so I'll be surveying members a lot. I want to know what they know about the different programs that we're offering, and I want to look at that feedback, and I want to start tailoring, engaging our messages and how we're communicating with them better. So it's just, you know, it's a lot of work. I look forward to it. I couldn't.

Ryan Ragan [00:38:46]:
You know, I tell you, Mike's been phenomenal. All the board members, I got to tell you, been better than I ever could have imagined.

Lucas Underwood [00:38:51]:
Right.

Ryan Ragan [00:38:51]:
And I've dealt with a lot of boards. Yeah. Cannot say that. Not at all. I'm on the board because my husband's the mayor. What?

Lucas Underwood [00:38:59]:
Great.

Ryan Ragan [00:38:59]:
Yeah. Okay. Put her on something over there.

Lucas Underwood [00:39:03]:
Seems like you're really effective at your job.

Ryan Ragan [00:39:05]:
Yeah, it's something. Right? You know, I've had a, you know, guy that, you know, we're talking about an international marketing program for pharmacy, and, well, I owned a pharmacy in Hillsborough. Great. All right. You owned a pharmacy in a one Pharmacy town. So tell us about market marketing.

Lucas Underwood [00:39:20]:
Right, right. Exactly.

Ryan Ragan [00:39:22]:
I appreciate it, but it's probably not going to help us in this situation, but. And, you know, it's just keeping people in their lane. But our board is spectacular. They're all experts in what they do, and they've been very gracious in bringing me in, and the staff has been very responsive, you know, to me, I don't. I look at this as nowhere to go but up. Yeah. You know, and I came in in a good time, in a good situation. This.

Ryan Ragan [00:39:44]:
This show coming up, you know, everybody talks about it. You know, next year, it's got to be even bigger. Yeah. And it's going to be, and it's going to be better. And we're learning stuff every day. Technology, things we can switch to, things to make registration easier. All these different things in process, you know, the luncheon forum, you know, talking about different ways to incorporate that in to make it even more focused. And, you know, there's things we can do.

Ryan Ragan [00:40:05]:
We're going to keep tweaking it, we're going to keep improving, and we'll stumble, but we're going to dust ourselves off and keep going.

Lucas Underwood [00:40:10]:
Keep going. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being here.

Ryan Ragan [00:40:14]:
It's. It's truly been my pleasure. I mean, you've been great. I've had great times talking to you. Anytime you want to reach out to me, I am more than happy to get on here and talk, and we can talk at the end of the season, you know, if you're still able to talk. I don't know. You might be in therapy every day by then. I don't know.

Lucas Underwood [00:40:31]:
Well, I mean, like, look, if the Celtics don't perform well and the Patriots don't perform well, I'm worried that we might have to have.

David Roman [00:40:38]:
Every year there's a different shift you.

Ryan Ragan [00:40:40]:
Just clutch on is that you just tell yourself whatever you got to.

Lucas Underwood [00:40:45]:
He felt. He felt better when the Panthers just completely sucked. Right. Well, when they started performing.

David Roman [00:40:50]:
Well, now, that guy is the Red Rocket. That's what they call him.

Ryan Ragan [00:40:55]:
I tell you, I was talking to my son and I'm, you know, nobody. My neighbors are Panthers fans, but nobody in the house is. And I. I was telling my son, I'm like, the only way I wouldn't bench Bryce Young is if I was the backup. I mean, I was pretty honest about it, and even then, I would give it hard thought.

Lucas Underwood [00:41:10]:
Right. Man, it was. It was awful.

Ryan Ragan [00:41:11]:
It was hard to watch.

Lucas Underwood [00:41:12]:
I mean, like, David Tepper is the. I mean, he Is like the worst repair shop owners we have ever met. Right. Like has to be in control of everything.

Ryan Ragan [00:41:27]:
That's a problem.

Lucas Underwood [00:41:27]:
Puts the wrong people in the wrong places.

Ryan Ragan [00:41:30]:
Yes. Men everywhere.

Lucas Underwood [00:41:31]:
Yeah. And then the minute something doesn't go his way, just blows everything up and tries again.

Ryan Ragan [00:41:35]:
You gotta, you gotta love that. You gotta love that.

David Roman [00:41:38]:
There's no way to blow it up now. They don't have anything.

Lucas Underwood [00:41:41]:
There's nothing left to blow up.

David Roman [00:41:43]:
There's nothing left to blow up.

Ryan Ragan [00:41:44]:
That's true.

David Roman [00:41:45]:
Absolutely.

Ryan Ragan [00:41:45]:
That is true.

David Roman [00:41:46]:
They gave it all away. Chicago's got it all.

Lucas Underwood [00:41:48]:
We bought a. We bought tickets to a game right before Apex, right. And George had never. George is getting older and he's got a good bit of weight on him. And I. He's never had the opportunity to do some of the fun stuff. And so I like to take my employees and do fun stuff. So I told George, you know what, we'll go to him Panthers game.

Lucas Underwood [00:42:05]:
And I looked at the Carolina sidelines and it was like 60 bucks. And then I looked at the Saints sidelines, It was like 750 bucks. And I was like, huh, Well, I don't know that I can sit on the Carolina sidelines. People are going to think I'm a loser.

Ryan Ragan [00:42:23]:
Yeah, that's true. And that's the way it used to be in New York. Like it was cheaper to me drive down to Baltimore and buy a ticket and watch the Yankees play there than it was to watch him play in Yankees Stadium. It was. I could get a hotel and I'm cheaper.

Lucas Underwood [00:42:37]:
Yeah, it still come out cheaper.

David Roman [00:42:39]:
I mean, Baltimore, sketchy though.

Lucas Underwood [00:42:41]:
It is, it is now you'll get shot in Baltimore.

David Roman [00:42:44]:
Well, I mean, it's always been that way.

Ryan Ragan [00:42:47]:
It adds to the ambiance, you know, a little risk. Risk, you know. Yeah, you gotta, you know, you don't want everything. I was, I had my brother in law and his son in law with me at a game in New York and win extra innings. And we come out and they're from Ohio, you know, we come out, it's about one in the morning, you know, in the Bronx, outside the stadium. And Ben looks at me, he goes, what are we doing? I said, I tell you what we're going to do. You're going to keep your head down. You're not going to make eye contact with anybody.

Ryan Ragan [00:43:10]:
You're never going to get more than two feet away from me. Follow me.

Lucas Underwood [00:43:14]:
That's exactly right.

Ryan Ragan [00:43:15]:
And I take him down an alley to where the livery cabs are and he's like, you sure just shut your mouth. We're just walking this way, you know, we.

Lucas Underwood [00:43:22]:
I'll never. I have only been in the Bronx three or four times, right? And I will never forget this one experience. Somehow we got turned around. We were in a pink Kenworth.

Ryan Ragan [00:43:33]:
Nice.

Lucas Underwood [00:43:34]:
I want to say it was not a W900. I want to say it was like one of the anteaters, like a T600 or something like that. And it was hot pink, buddy.

Ryan Ragan [00:43:41]:
Nice.

Lucas Underwood [00:43:41]:
And we went down through there, and somehow we ended up on this little back road, and we nailed. There was, like, half of an I beam laying in the middle of the road, right? And sometimes they. They would. They would, like, push stuff out in the road to try and get you to stop. And we nail this thing, right? Like, bounces us out in the sea. And I'm, like, looking around at these people. We keep going. And I'm thinking, how stupid do you have to be to be two country dudes in a pink truck in the middle of the Bronx? I mean, you have to be next level stupid to pull that off.

Ryan Ragan [00:44:12]:
It's a unique environment. It is. I had a meeting at Columbia University, and when I left, I got on the subway and it broke down. So I had to get on another one. And it went to the end of the subway in the Bronx. And then you had to get off and get on another train to come back. I saw things at the end of the subway in the Bronx. Like, it was like I was in Beirut.

Ryan Ragan [00:44:32]:
I mean, there was.

David Roman [00:44:33]:
What year was this?

Ryan Ragan [00:44:34]:
This was like, 2012, 2013. And, like, I saw stores. Like, I've never even heard of these places. Like, this is the only one in existence. You know, the guy's walking down the street in his underwear, and I'm sitting here thinking, this is, like, the craziest.

Lucas Underwood [00:44:49]:
Place I've ever seen I had. I'm not. I'm gonna tell myself a little bit. I did get in trouble one time, and I went to court, and I'll never forget. And I've, like, been in the courthouse from time to time. Jury duty, stuff. Like.

Ryan Ragan [00:44:59]:
Yeah, I'm sure it was jury duty. Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:45:02]:
This dude shows up with his underwear on the outside of his pants.

Ryan Ragan [00:45:06]:
Oh, yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:45:06]:
And the judge just sits there and shakes his head. And I know the judge, and he's like, we got a situation. And the guy said, I don't know what you're talking about. He said. The judge says, look. Look down. He said, yes, sir. Did we put our underwear on the outside of our pants? Maybe Maybe we should.

Lucas Underwood [00:45:30]:
Why are we wearing underwear on the outside of our pants? Oh, I'm sorry, your honor, I didn't know.

Ryan Ragan [00:45:34]:
Oh, wow.

Lucas Underwood [00:45:35]:
He like goes outside and he takes us underwear.

Ryan Ragan [00:45:37]:
Wow.

Lucas Underwood [00:45:37]:
Like, I don't even know why he goes outside of that.

Ryan Ragan [00:45:39]:
Yeah, I mean, nude, man. Just take him off.

Lucas Underwood [00:45:42]:
And so he comes back in and like they have his court case. Whole time this dude's got his underwear hanging out of his jacket pocket. I' what is going on?

Ryan Ragan [00:45:50]:
Yeah, you're. You're the public defender that day. As a public defender, you're like, I love this job.

Lucas Underwood [00:45:55]:
That's it. Oh, man, this is going to be a good one. This is going to be a good one.

Ryan Ragan [00:45:59]:
No, this is. It's been great though. You guys are great.

Lucas Underwood [00:46:01]:
What. What was I doing there? Oh, yeah, I had a really fast truck and I blew the turbocharger off the side of the truck. And so I pull into this little place. Now, I was a big pothead at the time, and there was this guy that was a good friend of mine and I. I carried these little thin wall glass bowls around that would just like sh. Matter if you threw.

Ryan Ragan [00:46:21]:
Oh, yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:46:22]:
I didn't want anything that I was going to get in trouble with. Right. Like, that was the rule. I never rode with anything in my vehicles because I was a high priority target because I drove fast and I was reckless and ridiculous and they always liked to mess with me. They were always very nice. I'm not gonna fuss. Except for that 136 mile an hour ticket in Walmart parking lot. And so anyway, dude's like, no, don't.

Lucas Underwood [00:46:45]:
Don't throw it away. And I was like, man, it's just a cheap little bowl. Like, I don't want it. I don't want to ride with. He's like, nah, man, I tell you what, like, if we get called, anything happens, I'll say it's mine.

Ryan Ragan [00:46:54]:
And he didn't.

Lucas Underwood [00:46:55]:
Oh. So he throws it in the. Like, the truck breaks. We pull into this parking lot, the sheriff's officer walks up and he's like, hey, Lucas, everything okay? And I said, yeah. This idiot takes it out of his pocket and throws it in the floorboard in front of the sheriff's officer. And I'm like, oh, you gotta be kidding me. And. But it was my fault, okay? This whole situation was completely my fault.

Lucas Underwood [00:47:12]:
The reason I got put in handcuffs on the whole nine yards was completely my fault. I own it. He. We had stopped at McDonald's and I put double cheeseburgers in the door. Pocket of the truck on the driver's side. This dude was in the passenger side. And so the sheriff's officer opens the door to let the dog into the truck smell for the bowl, and it runs across the bowl and it picks the double cheeseburger up out of the driver's side door pocket. And I lose it and I just like cannot control my laughter.

Lucas Underwood [00:47:43]:
And I'm like laughing so hard I'm crying. And the next thing I know I'm laying on the ground. Handcuffs, right? Because he did not like that. He did not think that was funny. So he puts me in the back of his patrol car and I'm sitting in the back of his patrol car and there's, there's like two sheriff's officers standing in front of the car and he's got his clipboard and he's writing me a ticket on this clipboard. And every time he breathes in and out, because he's a big guy, he blows the horn.

Ryan Ragan [00:48:07]:
Oh, wow.

Lucas Underwood [00:48:07]:
And so the guys are standing outside making fun of him and I just lose it. That did not help my case.

Ryan Ragan [00:48:14]:
Well, but I don't blame you for that one.

Lucas Underwood [00:48:15]:
I mean, it was, it was, it was years ran.

David Roman [00:48:19]:
Yeah, the guy wasn't gonna catch you.

Lucas Underwood [00:48:22]:
He would not have caught me.

David Roman [00:48:23]:
Your dog would have caught you.

Lucas Underwood [00:48:26]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:48:26]:
Years ago when I got out of the marines, I worked for two different sheriff's departments in Arkansas. And I had to transport a kid one day to court. And this kid tried to rob a convenience store. You know, he's 20 years old and a 64 year old woman took his shotgun away from him and held him there until the police got there.

Lucas Underwood [00:48:45]:
And so that's how you know your next level extra.

Ryan Ragan [00:48:49]:
Oh, I gotta tell you. And so I go to get him and I'm like, you ready for this? You know, I'm back in his cell and he's like, yeah, I'm ready. I know exactly what I'm going to say. I said, you know what you're going to say to the judge? And he said, yeah, I've been talking to Tom. I'm like, tom, how many times you been to prison? 5. That's exactly who I would listen to. He knows exactly what that judge wants to hear. I mean, the, the stupidity is just, you know, you don't even know how to.

Ryan Ragan [00:49:10]:
You can't even even. Yeah, like really?

Lucas Underwood [00:49:12]:
Oh my goodness.

Ryan Ragan [00:49:14]:
Yeah, he had a rough time in jail. He had a. You know, you don't stroll in with a 64 year old woman beating you up and it's not a smooth ride.

David Roman [00:49:20]:
Once you're really big.

Ryan Ragan [00:49:22]:
No, not at all. She was pretty mean, but not big.

Lucas Underwood [00:49:25]:
But I could see my mom doing something like that.

Ryan Ragan [00:49:27]:
He, he was definitely a fight or flight guy. And it just. Once it became real, he was like, oh, hell, I'm just gonna give up.

David Roman [00:49:33]:
Please, I'm sorry.

Ryan Ragan [00:49:36]:
It's like, oh, yeah, that's. You know, you're not a good criminal. Maybe find a new job.

David Roman [00:49:41]:
Yeah, I. I would have just dropped and said, I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it. Yeah, she wasn't going to shoot me. I was running.

Lucas Underwood [00:49:47]:
I mean, there's a. There's a lot of people who have found themselves in that situation that ended up like getting hammered out pretty bad. Right. And the number of people that will pull an airsoft gun. Oh, it's just on law enforcement. I mean, like.

Ryan Ragan [00:50:00]:
And then somebody complains that they shoot them. Well, yeah, I don't know what you think is going to happen.

Lucas Underwood [00:50:04]:
I mean, right? Like, this does not. You don't have to have a rocket science deal to do this.

Ryan Ragan [00:50:09]:
I don't have time to read if it's airsoft or this and that, you know, that's too bad.

Lucas Underwood [00:50:13]:
It's like the video of the. That in Phoenix. The people in the chicken store in the chicken restaurant and the dudes in there with airsoft gun. He like grabs the woman, he holds her and then is acting like he's robbing the place. And they run in and the cop just turns the corner. And when he turns the corner, all he sees is he turns the corner behind the boots is the end of the airsoft gun pointing up in the air. And well, the dude's parents say, well, but you could see the tip was. Bro, I ain't waiting to find out what color the tip is.

Ryan Ragan [00:50:45]:
Yeah, right.

Lucas Underwood [00:50:46]:
And dude, he unloads a Glock on him. Right. He absolutely unloads a 17 shot Glock on this dude and turns him into Swiss cheese. Yeah, with quickness. Right. I was impressed. I mean, they said 70% of the shots hit this guy.

Ryan Ragan [00:50:59]:
Training takes over. You know, you're not even thinking at that point. It's just training takes over and that's what you're doing and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, you sort of.

David Roman [00:51:07]:
You want that to happen. You don't want the panic. The panicky, freaked out officer that starts.

Ryan Ragan [00:51:14]:
Fumbling and it happened. Oh, yeah.

David Roman [00:51:17]:
Like the one kid in Minnesota, I think was Minnesota. The lady pulled out. What she said it was the taser. I Thought it was the Taser, ended up being gone, Ends up hitting the guy.

Ryan Ragan [00:51:27]:
Yeah, she.

Lucas Underwood [00:51:28]:
There's that. There's that one video. There's a North Carolina highway patrol officer, and it's a perfect example of that. There's one where the highway patrol officer pulls the kid over, goes to the passenger side of the car, and the kid has really not. He got a speed. He was going to get a speeding ticket. But the kid tells him, says, hey, there is a pistol in the glove box. And the highway patrol officer said, that's fine.

Lucas Underwood [00:51:53]:
Don't worry about it. Tell you what, how about you just keep your hand where I can see it, lean down, open the glove box, I'll reach in, and I'll get the pistol out, and we'll be done. And so the kid opens the glove box, and before the cop can reach in to get the pistol out, the kid starts reaching for him. He says, stop, stop, stop. Stop what you're doing. And he tries to tell him over and over again, but the thing was, is you could watch him. And he maintained his composure. He never let it.

Lucas Underwood [00:52:20]:
He didn't shake him. It didn't upset him. It didn't get him to where he wasn't thinking. He was paying attention to his surroundings. He was looking what's happening around him. Right. And one of the things that gets them in trouble is, like, they'll. They'll go.

Lucas Underwood [00:52:31]:
To get into a confrontation like that, they'll start backing away.

Ryan Ragan [00:52:35]:
Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:52:35]:
And they'll trip and fall or hit something.

Ryan Ragan [00:52:37]:
They're not backing up is a bad idea.

Lucas Underwood [00:52:38]:
Right. Situational awareness isn't there. And so he. Like, they. The thing is, when adrenaline hits, you're either going to be that person who can slow things down and say, all right, here's where I'm at. Here's what my surroundings are like. I'm paying attention to things. Or you're going to be the person that panics.

Ryan Ragan [00:52:53]:
There's a lot that goes. I mean, you got to count shells. You know, you're firing your weapon. You have to count your shells. You got to know how many shells you fired, how many shots you got left. What do you got going on? You have to run all that stuff. You know, when I was a. You know, I was a Marine, same thing.

Ryan Ragan [00:53:04]:
You know, you had to know.

David Roman [00:53:06]:
Yeah, it is a Marine. You had to know.

Ryan Ragan [00:53:08]:
Well, I only have so many rounds. Yeah. You've got to start thinking that there's nothing more terrifying in your life. Running out of bullets.

Lucas Underwood [00:53:14]:
Right.

Ryan Ragan [00:53:15]:
At the wrong time, at the wrong time. Because now there's nothing to do.

Lucas Underwood [00:53:18]:
And you better make sure the first one hits. Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:53:20]:
I mean, and it is. And, you know, most gunfights happen actually within three to five feet.

Lucas Underwood [00:53:24]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:53:24]:
I mean, they're very close. That's usually how it happens. And so it is. And it's. You know, years ago, they interviewed. I think it was like, 100 cops, killers. And I read this article about it, and they. And these are guys that knew they were going to attack the officer.

Ryan Ragan [00:53:37]:
And the number one and two things that they said, and it was odd, these people have never met, was if the gun was unsnapped, it meant he was scared. Yeah. And if his shoes weren't shined, it meant he was lazy. I knew I was going to attack him. That's crazy. And it was bizarre how many of them said the same thing. And I was just like, that is the weirdest thing I've ever heard. But they just said, you know, if he comes up with his hand over here and it's unsnapped, he's nervous.

Ryan Ragan [00:54:01]:
Nervous. He's scared.

David Roman [00:54:02]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:54:03]:
And he goes, that's not. You don't want to be scared. And then he said, you know, you look at their boots and their uniform, and if they're unshined, sloppy, they're lazy.

David Roman [00:54:11]:
And he's like, those are hardened, like, psychopaths.

Ryan Ragan [00:54:15]:
Oh, yeah, yeah.

David Roman [00:54:16]:
That's not.

Ryan Ragan [00:54:16]:
Those are convicts. There's a difference between a convict and a prisoner. You know, a jail, county jail guy or something.

David Roman [00:54:21]:
A lot of these are. Are guys that are like, I'm gonna fight my way out of this.

Ryan Ragan [00:54:25]:
Yeah.

David Roman [00:54:26]:
What do you think is gonna end up happening?

Lucas Underwood [00:54:28]:
You know, it's like that there's a. The lockup brawl video that I sent you years ago. And it's a guy who. He's a hardened, hardened convict. I mean, genuine convict. Right. And his thought process was. Because they interviewed him and he had killed, like, four guards at this point.

Lucas Underwood [00:54:45]:
He was waiting trial to be recharged or resented for potential death sentence, all this stuff. And they said, like, hey, you just don't get close to him. But something switches in this guy. He turns into a different human being instantly. And you can see it in his eyes. They've got a video of it happening. This guy changes, is right. And so he said.

Lucas Underwood [00:55:03]:
His exact thought process was he said, I don't like child molesters. I don't want to be in a cell with a child molester. And he said, as a matter of fact, I believe that I killed four people to get into this prison, and that is my fucking cell. And I'm not going to bunk with anybody. And what are you going to do to me?

Ryan Ragan [00:55:22]:
There's nothing you can do at this point.

Lucas Underwood [00:55:24]:
What are you going to do?

Ryan Ragan [00:55:24]:
You got nothing to lose. I mean, nothing you're going to do.

Lucas Underwood [00:55:26]:
And so he cut up his cellmate into little pieces and then cooked him on, like, a little camp stove in the cell.

Ryan Ragan [00:55:32]:
We had a guy years ago that they'd picked up, and he had been in, like, Walla Walla. I think it was like 18 years.

Lucas Underwood [00:55:38]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:55:38]:
And he was hitchhiking, and they kind of brought him in. They put him in the drunk tank. And there was a drunk guy in there just yelling and screaming and somebody beat on the door and they popped it. And I'm like, what do you need? And this guy has been in prison. He says, hey, if something happens to this guy, is anything going to happen to me? And I said, when I close this door, I can't see anything. So I close the door, and then you just hear all hell break loose. I told him to pop the door again. And pop the door.

Ryan Ragan [00:56:03]:
The drunk guy's unconscious, laying in the floor, blood all over him. And this guy's sitting there with blood all over his hands. And I looked at all the other guys in there and I said, what happened? One guy said he fell off the toilet. Nobody wanted to say anything. That guy was a convict. Like, he didn't tolerate that stupidity? Like. No, no.

Lucas Underwood [00:56:20]:
Well, and there's a. I think that that comes down to a pretty hard discussion of what is the reform system in the United States, and does it work?

David Roman [00:56:31]:
Nah, not with those people. Those people.

Lucas Underwood [00:56:33]:
Well, no, no, you're right. You're right. But I'm saying, does the base reform system we have in place do what it's supposed to do? I've got a friend who's. Who's in on drug charges. Right. And he had been. He's a really funny guy. He's a really, you know it deep down, he's a good guy.

Lucas Underwood [00:56:49]:
And. And he's been through a lot of stuff. And so he said, you know, I have been in county jail. And he said, I have been in state, Penny multiple times. He said, let me tell you something, Federal, it's a whole different ball game, different animal. And he said, these people in here don't laugh at my jokes. And he said, they don't care. And he said, I'm really nervous.

Lucas Underwood [00:57:09]:
I don't make it out of here.

Ryan Ragan [00:57:10]:
Yeah, it's a way of life. Right.

Lucas Underwood [00:57:13]:
And so, like, I guess the thing is, is to get out of there, to be able to survive long enough to do his time and to make his way out. Old boy's got to toughen up. What does it mean when he toughens out there?

Ryan Ragan [00:57:24]:
You go, you're getting in trouble, you start an issue, you got to fight, you got to join a gang, you got to partner with some somebody, you got to pick a side.

Lucas Underwood [00:57:30]:
And then you come out and you're a bad mofo, and you're right back where it was, worse than it was to begin with.

Ryan Ragan [00:57:35]:
Yeah. I mean, I've had a lot of guys tell me, you know, that they learn to be criminals, you know. You know, I came in on stupid charge when I was 18, and I learned to be a criminal in here. You know, I had teachers every day telling me exactly how to become a criminal. Yeah. And so, you know, you're like, well, you know, that's what it is. But, yeah, we have. We have some issues.

Ryan Ragan [00:57:52]:
I mean, there's. There's other places that do it better, you know, and, you know, you look at what's going on in Central America, they've got that one president down there. It's like the murder rate dropped, like, 81% when he.

David Roman [00:58:03]:
Salvador.

Ryan Ragan [00:58:03]:
Yeah. It's just insane.

David Roman [00:58:05]:
The prison is huge.

Ryan Ragan [00:58:07]:
It's like you're in Turkey or something.

Lucas Underwood [00:58:09]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:58:09]:
It's crazy. But, you know, he's realized, you know, we had to make a change here. Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [00:58:14]:
Well, you know, I will say Judge Ginn is. Was a family friend for many years, and the last time I had jury duty, it was a really, like, I was on one case. It was a really weird case. And then right after that, he was doing a child rape and murder case. And so I was. I was listening to him as he was explaining to the jury, and he said, this process is not perfect, and I don't want you to think it is, but I'll tell you, this process is probably the best in the nation at the time. Right. This process is probably the best in the nation at ensuring at least fair treatment of both parties.

Ryan Ragan [00:58:51]:
Right.

Lucas Underwood [00:58:51]:
And he said, anybody who has any suggestion of making it better, I'm all ears. Like, this is the best thing we know to do. Right. Thought it was a pretty.

Ryan Ragan [00:59:00]:
I don't think it's so much the process. It's. It's gotten so the media. Yeah. You know, and all the information leaked and, you know, and then kind of the sneakiness and the evidence and how it's done. It's like, that's where it seems to kind of break down.

Lucas Underwood [00:59:14]:
You can just pay an attorney who. Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:59:16]:
And it's kind of like that's where it seems to break down. And then, you know, two years later, where it's an appeal. Why? Well, they found out all this was, you know, it should have never been allowed. And you're like, you know, how did we get here?

Lucas Underwood [00:59:26]:
Yeah, yeah. They've learned to manipulate the system to.

Ryan Ragan [00:59:28]:
A degree that it's really broke.

David Roman [00:59:30]:
Comes about. It's like the flat rate system. It becomes about prosecutions. 99% prosecuted, you know, successfully.

Ryan Ragan [00:59:38]:
Well, and I used to know a prosecuting attorney and that's what he would kind of run on. But he plea bargained almost all of them.

David Roman [00:59:45]:
Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:59:45]:
You know, so. But, oh, my, you know, my conviction rate is this. Well, 84% of them were plea bar bargain.

Lucas Underwood [00:59:50]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Ragan [00:59:51]:
But to him, it counts as, hey, I'm a conviction machine. No, you're not.

Lucas Underwood [00:59:55]:
Exactly. Exactly.

David Roman [00:59:56]:
Well, then it becomes about the conviction, not necessarily about justice.

Ryan Ragan [01:00:00]:
Yeah.

David Roman [01:00:00]:
Becomes the problem.

Ryan Ragan [01:00:01]:
Well, it is. It's you know, the old quota for cops. You know, you got to write so many speeding tickets, you know. Oh, that doesn't exist. Yeah, it does. Yeah.

Lucas Underwood [01:00:07]:
Oh, yeah.

Ryan Ragan [01:00:08]:
Oh, no, there. Come on, man.

Lucas Underwood [01:00:10]:
I. I've helped many of them.

Ryan Ragan [01:00:11]:
Yeah. They love you. I know.

Lucas Underwood [01:00:16]:
Probably the only ones.